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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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show number 103 for the eighth of

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October 2010 Richard Saunders here with

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you together with dr. H II hi dr. aging

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hi Richard how are you I'm fine in our

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favorite bastard sheep g'day everyone

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and we are doing the intro because we're

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actually getting ready to do today's

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think tank but I thought I'd slip in the

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intro why we're here and we've just

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finished a lovely chinese dinner hey

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Ricci it's the eighth of October John

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Lennon would have been 70 that's right

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he would have been and I see that Google

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have changed their livery or their logo

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today Richard in honor of john lennon

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Wow 70 that's amazing it is you're a big

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fan of the beatles aren't you Richard

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sure yeah yeah I I certainly in and I

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saw the other day that Julian Lennon was

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on in the news because he's just opened

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up an exhibition of his photography oh

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yeah and he says it's really good

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because he's not being compared to his

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dad what's Sean manan up to these days

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he's amused oh this is still yay yay

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around okay yeah our time flies on

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today's episode of the skeptic zone as

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you heard before we'll be having the

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think tank which will be doing shortly

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but before then we've got an interview

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that you did dr. hm yeah we've got an

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interview with Simon Singh which I did

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at our mate which was all a couple of

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months back now where Simon gives us

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some sort of a final wrap-up of what

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happened with the BCA British

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Chiropractic Association libel case

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which is most sisters would know was

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dropped some time ago now but he fills

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us in about what was involved in that

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and also how much money it costs Richard

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because one of the things that libel in

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the UK has been most criticized for is

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the expense I think it's something like

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three times the cost of anywhere else in

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Europe which is why you get this thing

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called libel tourism where people

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deliberately see you in the UK courts

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because they can know they can get a lot

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more money

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that makes things even more difficult

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for people being accused of libel so he

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tells us about that and also gives us an

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update on what's happening with them but

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the campaign to change libel laws in the

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UK fantastic will play that interview in

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just a moment and after that we've got a

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short report from the new hub skeptics

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in the pub in Sydney and bastard cheap

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you were there Yale's great night

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fantastic venue a great venue we have

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and there's a short report coming up

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about that and of course at the end of

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the show we'll have the think tank so

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sit back enjoy that diet coke and enjoy

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here we are at MA and I'm with Simon

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Singh hello son is in good morning good

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morning especially my pastry it's a bit

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early this morning isn't it we're here

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at what is it 740 a.m. on saturday in

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Las Vegas I mean the crazy thing is that

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the day is so packed they're so

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relentless with so many of your things

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happening but if you want actually sit

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down with some of you have a chat you

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really had if it's very good morning or

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very late in the day it's it which is a

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good thing but but it just shows what it

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would a jam-packed of Elvis's yeah what

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today is the keynote lecture which is

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Richard Dawkins this afternoon and yeah

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of course there's a whole lot of stuff

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going on today so should be fun as it

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has been for the whole conference here

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yeah this is only my second time I what

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second time in America i came i think i

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was on a book tour a few years ago

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richard wiseman was here and said look

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and he should swim by this event but no

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idea how extraordinary it is and it was

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fantastic no it was just an amazing if

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it rain to be a and I haven't been back

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for three or four years ago visit Tamlin

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the last year i'm looking forward to

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town australia later this year and most

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of all I think it's really nice to to

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come here this year and tell people a

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happy story which is the fire libel case

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is over yeah and I'm not so sure of one

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but I certainly didn't lose and and the

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fact that so many people in the room not

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only followed the cakes but actively

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supported it and actively spread the

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word and some of them took apart some of

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the arguments of your position or

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someone donated to libel reform

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campaigns and so on it was just a lovely

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opportunity and also just to thank james

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randi if your plate I remember there was

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a point when when things look really bad

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may 2009 and Jane Brandi and Phil Plait

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sent an email and said look we've got

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your back you know I was just great to

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have that that that the knowledge of

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such solid support from people who you

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have an or

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respectful yeah it was amazing wasn't it

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I mean after all that the BCA of course

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for listeners who don't know the

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background basically the British

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Chiropractic Association tsuji for libel

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because you wrote a piece in The

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Guardian saying that some of their

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treatments were bogus and then after it

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went to trial well did a go to trial it

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didn't I would have started it we had a

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preliminary hearing which I suppose is

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part of the trial process and we had we

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lost a preliminary hearing because it

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was over the meaning of the Artic yeah

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that was also desirable it was

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interesting you said you said it was

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over the fact that i called the

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treatment bogus and it says a bit heart

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when he said that no bogus mean lots of

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different things and they were asserting

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that by calling their treatments bogus i

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was called them as lack dishonor I was

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accusing the [\h__\h] Matt dishonesty

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knowingly yeah and rosalie promotion

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treatments that work and I didn't say

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they knowingly promote I said they

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happily promote yeah yeah happily for me

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in that context meant innocently

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blithely thoughtlessly yeah all sorts of

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different possibilities and bogers just

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meant ineffective and I think earlier in

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the article the context makes it clear

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because earlier after like all

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chiropractors wacky wacky people are

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dishonest they're just eccentric yeah I

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call chiropractors I call them

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fundamentalist fundamenta of exact

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opposite of dishonest they're so

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blinkered to their view they can only be

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honest they're wrong yeah but but that

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meaning went against me the judge sided

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with them and that's the point when I

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think the sketch community really

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rallied round it and also an Australia

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of course fantastic support from people

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in the skeptic movement and journalists

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from scientists it was just overwhelming

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to know that that the whole world that

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cared about science and rationalism was

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supporting the average speech of course

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hmm well you know that we had a

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complaint submitted against us the

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Australian skeptics because weary

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published your article on our website

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because there was a campaign where

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everyone published it republished it on

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a particular day across the world and

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the chiropractor submitted a complaint

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to the healthcare Complaints Commission

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in Australia against us because we've

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been a quick stick yeah I mean it was

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throw it out because it was yes I and

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essentially you publish the article I

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guess because he believed in free speech

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yeah and he was smooth it was

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complaining about the fact you were too

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speaking up for free speech yeah there

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was so many twists and turns I've

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forgotten that that completely big

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you're absolutely right it's a chapel

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david island green and jack a jack of

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kevin walker who's currently putting

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together some ideas for a book on the

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whole not just my case but with other

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libel cases and libel reform and free

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speech in england and those little

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stories hopefully someone will remember

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to tell him because it was those little

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twists and turns and and those

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contributions from around the world have

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been made a difference well he's got a

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facebook page called if I finally write

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this book will you buy it if everything

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is going to be called bad law so you can

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enjoin that page so tell me about the

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fallout now so that basically the BCA

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pulled out of the case didn't they yeah

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they discontinued proceedings which

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essentially means that they're now

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liable for all of the costs so the one

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thing we do now and wrapping things up

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is they owe me my costs we're tallying

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up the bill which we recognized for that

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my legal costs we think I'm too around

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quarter of a million pounds well I

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didn't quite realize how much it was but

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well I'm good all the bills in and they

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now have to pay my course but they will

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undoubtedly argue over every point we

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make every expense we include and

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typically what happens is a clay a

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successful person in case like this gets

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back about eighty percent of their money

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which size pretty good

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accepting me to lose twenty percent yeah

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twenty percent of quarter million is

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it's not a small of a normal amount of

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money it's very painful but so we'll see

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I mean that hope you will settle it very

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quickly if we don't settle it then then

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we have to go to cross court and the

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whole process starts again so yeah that

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that's that that that anyway that's

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that's not the important thing the

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important thing is that chiropractors

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now seem to be reassessing what they do

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they're very active debate within the

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community this is the interesting thing

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because I can't remember the name of the

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person i mean you're talking about the

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twists and turns of this case and there

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was a car member the guys name but who

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went through all of the chiropractors in

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the whole of the UK and complained about

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every single one that was making

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experience claims and so basically the

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entire profession was put into the

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spotlight and i guess it was a Streisand

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effect in that sense wasn't it because

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they were completely exposed for what I

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did I think there was a Streisand effect

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from the sort of thing you were doing by

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republishing the article I should

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strengthen the article was very slightly

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edited so the key points were still

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being made but I think were fairly cast

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iron sir so that was great to spread the

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word then there was greater scrutiny

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applied doing our prayers so the bmj ran

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a big debate peaks where day we have the

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editor the bmj concluded by saying I see

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the chiropractor's argument I see the

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skeptics argument / for by Professor

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roads are d'oeuvres and to me Ed's our

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terms demolition of the chiropractor's

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references is to my mind complete and

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that the MJ goes out to doctors searches

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and so pretty spent equal to n so so

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that again that was great and then

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skeptics in Britain people I think like

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Chris French Simon Perry certainly Alan

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00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:51,520
hennes very much involved started

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searching chiropractic websites if they

273
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make claims like trying to treat

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colleague net-net the Advertising

275
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Standards Authority in England have said

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that chiropractors cannot make that play

277
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because it's not backed up by evidence

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yeah now the general chiropractic care

279
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so which runs the whole business says

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that if the Advertising Standards

281
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Authority says something shouldn't be

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advertised then we wholeheartedly

283
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backpacked so they sort of draw up their

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standards based on the advertising

285
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standards and therefore all of these

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chiropractors sort of 600 who were

287
00:12:32,579 --> 00:12:30,970
claiming to tree colleague complaints

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were made directly to the general

289
00:12:37,019 --> 00:12:34,690
chiropractic castle and they now all

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have to be investigated yeah it's a one

291
00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:39,040
in four carburetors in Brittany air is

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now being investigated for allegedly

293
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misleading complaints and were allegedly

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his lead he claims to treat certain

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condition and I heard that they actually

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have had to put on more staff to deal

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00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:51,730
with the complaint I think six more

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staff and you know everyone has has to

299
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be checked everyone has to let us have

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we sent out the chiropractor's

301
00:13:03,630 --> 00:13:01,740
chiropractor to respond with the defense

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probably have to go to the Professional

303
00:13:09,210 --> 00:13:06,940
Conduct committee and you just think

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well I make somebody called it a witch

305
00:13:15,620 --> 00:13:11,529
hunt what a chiropractor and a blotter

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00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:15,630
this is a witch I'm and to me is it is

307
00:13:22,050 --> 00:13:18,970
members of society saying this to me

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looks yeah unscientific not

309
00:13:26,850 --> 00:13:24,700
evidence-based and I'm within my right

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to submit a complaint and instead of

311
00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:29,320
calling this a witch hunt chiropractors

312
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should be saying how on earth has this

313
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:32,380
been going on for 10 or 20 Lou is

314
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because I glad somebody actually

315
00:13:38,070 --> 00:13:35,920
noticing that we're making because there

316
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a lot of really good cardwell really

317
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:42,640
good fun don't let me rephrase up Jim

318
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:46,810
there there chiropractors who know what

319
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:49,570
their limits up yeah which is like

320
00:13:54,180 --> 00:13:51,850
manipulation yes spiral mini pleasure to

321
00:13:55,860 --> 00:13:54,190
treat lower back problems are a lot of

322
00:13:58,079 --> 00:13:55,870
people in the evidence is very weak a

323
00:13:59,940 --> 00:13:58,089
lot of people say well even if the

324
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evidence is weak back problems are very

325
00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:02,230
hard to treat therefore everybody knows

326
00:14:06,090 --> 00:14:04,240
badly chiropractors do as well or as bad

327
00:14:08,220 --> 00:14:06,100
as anybody else yeah that's so there are

328
00:14:10,829 --> 00:14:08,230
some card practice you say we deal with

329
00:14:12,780 --> 00:14:10,839
the spine we fix the spine that's what

330
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,790
the limits of our practice is and I

331
00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:14,560
think they in a way could have been

332
00:14:17,790 --> 00:14:16,089
speaking at five or ten years ago

333
00:14:19,449 --> 00:14:17,800
against their colleagues who are making

334
00:14:20,590 --> 00:14:19,459
Wilder claims

335
00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:20,600
but you know what's really interesting

336
00:14:25,059 --> 00:14:23,839
about that Simon is that you generally

337
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find with people that don't have

338
00:14:29,139 --> 00:14:26,779
evidence when they challenge they

339
00:14:31,739 --> 00:14:29,149
respond with either ad hominem attacks

340
00:14:35,949 --> 00:14:31,749
abuse or some other lot lawsuits right

341
00:14:38,829 --> 00:14:35,959
now they'll make Timoney chiropractors

342
00:14:40,780 --> 00:14:38,839
sent out that incredible email which

343
00:14:43,509 --> 00:14:40,790
somebody found to all of their members

344
00:14:45,939 --> 00:14:43,519
saying take your websites down remove

345
00:14:47,949 --> 00:14:45,949
any reference to this now don't discuss

346
00:14:50,049 --> 00:14:47,959
this with your patients all in super

347
00:14:53,319 --> 00:14:50,059
caps lock capital letters I mean it was

348
00:14:57,790 --> 00:14:53,329
yeah it was it was a frightening time to

349
00:15:00,730 --> 00:14:57,800
be a chiropractor yes I mean I I wasn't

350
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:00,740
involved the serious complaint sir I'm

351
00:15:05,259 --> 00:15:03,410
not fully up to speed with with what

352
00:15:08,889 --> 00:15:05,269
happened or where the situation is right

353
00:15:11,169 --> 00:15:08,899
now but but my recollection is that the

354
00:15:12,489 --> 00:15:11,179
bulk of the complaints were focused on

355
00:15:15,129 --> 00:15:12,499
the British chiropractic association's

356
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:15,139
members because they're the biggest body

357
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:16,970
and they'd sort of put the head of a

358
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:19,279
parapet bags so I don't know where the

359
00:15:23,470 --> 00:15:21,110
complaints were being made against with

360
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,480
too many chiropractors but they certain

361
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:25,519
felt that they might be in the firing

362
00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:27,110
line so as you say they just said for

363
00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:28,910
God's sake batten down the hatches and

364
00:15:34,259 --> 00:15:31,910
take down any claims because if we have

365
00:15:36,669 --> 00:15:34,269
to investigate all of our own members

366
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:36,679
you know again it's going to cost them a

367
00:15:41,319 --> 00:15:38,480
huge amount of money and a huge amount

368
00:15:43,239 --> 00:15:41,329
of embarrassment mm yeah when we had a

369
00:15:45,340 --> 00:15:43,249
little bit of them sort of follow up in

370
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:45,350
Australia we have some media that did a

371
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:48,639
a very good story actually on

372
00:15:55,090 --> 00:15:51,170
chiropractors in Australia who are

373
00:15:57,639 --> 00:15:55,100
making similar claims but we haven't had

374
00:15:59,980 --> 00:15:57,649
nearly the sort of exposure that that

375
00:16:01,359 --> 00:15:59,990
the BCA has had that yeah it's I mean

376
00:16:02,829 --> 00:16:01,369
the whole profession as you say has now

377
00:16:07,859 --> 00:16:02,839
been called into question hasn't it

378
00:16:12,879 --> 00:16:07,869
really know it and I think it's I think

379
00:16:15,069 --> 00:16:12,889
what the what the the complaints have

380
00:16:19,859 --> 00:16:15,079
shown is that there is a system that you

381
00:16:21,910 --> 00:16:19,869
can use skeptics we sometimes like to

382
00:16:24,039 --> 00:16:21,920
conduct your own investigations I

383
00:16:26,019 --> 00:16:24,049
conducted investigation was said about

384
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:26,029
science about honea path to the plane

385
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:26,930
into treat malaria

386
00:16:31,329 --> 00:16:29,330
any kind of you think of an idea and you

387
00:16:34,030 --> 00:16:31,339
give you do investigation you try and

388
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:34,040
get publicity for it or you blog about

389
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:36,320
it or you try and write articles about

390
00:16:40,510 --> 00:16:38,690
it to highlight the problem or educate

391
00:16:43,329 --> 00:16:40,520
the public and so with the other

392
00:16:45,610 --> 00:16:43,339
approach is to is to work within the

393
00:16:47,949 --> 00:16:45,620
system yeah and the thing that

394
00:16:50,590 --> 00:16:47,959
chiropractors is that unlike homeopath

395
00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:50,600
Tony apart in Britain are not recognized

396
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:53,209
as a profession so I could go back to

397
00:16:57,519 --> 00:16:54,890
London tomorrow and call myself a homie

398
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:57,529
man nobody could stop I couldn't call

399
00:17:01,750 --> 00:16:59,360
myself a chiropractor because it's a

400
00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:01,760
regulator protect regulated perfection

401
00:17:06,850 --> 00:17:04,910
with a protected title and because of

402
00:17:08,740 --> 00:17:06,860
that there is a general chiropractic

403
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:08,750
Council which tries to enforce standards

404
00:17:13,809 --> 00:17:11,329
now that in it so there's nothing like a

405
00:17:16,270 --> 00:17:13,819
homeopath association that there are

406
00:17:18,790 --> 00:17:16,280
associations but there's the society

407
00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:18,800
homeopaths faculty homeopaths it but we

408
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:20,809
the Scottish Society homeopath sister

409
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:22,910
yeah I don't know they're all sorts of

410
00:17:27,970 --> 00:17:24,410
different society with all their

411
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:27,980
different rules and they make up their

412
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:30,080
rules to police their own members and

413
00:17:34,090 --> 00:17:32,330
the quality of those rules the scope of

414
00:17:36,430 --> 00:17:34,100
those rules how well they're implemented

415
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:36,440
depends on the society but with the

416
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:38,210
general chiropractic cats or because

417
00:17:42,130 --> 00:17:39,890
they've been set up by government

418
00:17:45,030 --> 00:17:42,140
because government has recognized higher

419
00:17:48,190 --> 00:17:45,040
practice they have a very strict

420
00:17:51,130 --> 00:17:48,200
obligation to enforce those rules and if

421
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:51,140
they don't then the general chiropractic

422
00:17:54,850 --> 00:17:52,850
Castle could be reported to the Privy

423
00:18:00,190 --> 00:17:54,860
Council after that's my understanding of

424
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:00,200
it so where these bodies exist that have

425
00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:03,890
an obligation to implement rules and

426
00:18:07,660 --> 00:18:06,320
regulations skeptics can use that I mean

427
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:07,670
was similarly one of the things I did a

428
00:18:12,790 --> 00:18:09,710
few years ago that got me interested in

429
00:18:14,590 --> 00:18:12,800
alternative medicine that's when I

430
00:18:16,419 --> 00:18:14,600
really interesting physics and maths and

431
00:18:18,580 --> 00:18:16,429
pure science and so on but and one

432
00:18:23,919 --> 00:18:18,590
things have got me interested was a BBC

433
00:18:25,450 --> 00:18:23,929
programme about acupuncture which the

434
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:25,460
long and short of it was that there was

435
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:27,050
a scene at the beginning that was deeply

436
00:18:30,970 --> 00:18:28,370
misleading it showed a woman having

437
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:30,980
major heart surgery and gave the

438
00:18:34,330 --> 00:18:33,200
impression that this woman wasn't having

439
00:18:36,430 --> 00:18:34,340
general anesthetic

440
00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:36,440
yeah but was having acupuncture instead

441
00:18:40,419 --> 00:18:38,360
yeah and that was true she didn't have

442
00:18:42,460 --> 00:18:40,429
general anesthetic she did have

443
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:42,470
acupuncture she was having major heart

444
00:18:47,019 --> 00:18:44,809
surgery but in addition to acupuncture

445
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:47,029
she was having three of most powerful

446
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:49,490
sedative known to mankind they didn't

447
00:18:55,269 --> 00:18:51,679
mention they're not really a large funny

448
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:55,279
mug local anesthetic so there was there

449
00:19:01,090 --> 00:18:57,890
was a slightly cryptic sentence much

450
00:19:02,860 --> 00:19:01,100
later on the documentary which I asked

451
00:19:04,210 --> 00:19:02,870
reporters and reviewers and nobody

452
00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:04,220
picked up on it everybody had this

453
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:06,529
impression it was a miraculous operation

454
00:19:10,659 --> 00:19:08,330
of the way I will show the miraculous

455
00:19:15,130 --> 00:19:10,669
power of acupuncture I knew that I was

456
00:19:18,570 --> 00:19:15,140
wrong and and I think I like many other

457
00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:18,580
people tend to just moan about it and

458
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:21,049
you know I'd motor people and complain

459
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:23,840
and you know I thought I'll go a bit

460
00:19:28,180 --> 00:19:25,610
further I'll bring up the programme

461
00:19:30,519 --> 00:19:28,190
makers they weren't really interested in

462
00:19:32,409 --> 00:19:30,529
discussing it I'm not surprised so then

463
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:32,419
I wrote an article for The Guardian I

464
00:19:36,340 --> 00:19:34,450
think I renata for the Telegraph first

465
00:19:38,139 --> 00:19:36,350
and then I learnt a bit more about

466
00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:38,149
programs or another article for The

467
00:19:42,159 --> 00:19:39,950
Guardian so first Telegraph then the

468
00:19:45,850 --> 00:19:42,169
Guardian but still nobody was listening

469
00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:45,860
nobody wasn't getting anywhere and so I

470
00:19:51,909 --> 00:19:47,870
said well this is system you can

471
00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:51,919
complain to the BBC Trust in Britain or

472
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:55,760
a brief BBC complaints process for other

473
00:20:00,220 --> 00:19:57,440
programs you can complain sub called

474
00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:00,230
Ofcom which is a communications

475
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:03,110
complaint system but for me it was the

476
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:06,760
BBC complaints process I complained and

477
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:14,090
it was rejected yeah so I appeal and it

478
00:20:19,529 --> 00:20:16,970
was rejected again and the final time I

479
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:19,539
was allowed to appeal to the BBC Trust

480
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:23,360
top top committee and they upheld the

481
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:28,970
complaints and its own so I I feel that

482
00:20:31,870 --> 00:20:30,559
that complaint made a difference now it

483
00:20:34,060 --> 00:20:31,880
was too late because a program at gon

484
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:34,070
act and two million people had seen it

485
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:35,210
in two million people would have thought

486
00:20:38,620 --> 00:20:37,490
back my job if I acupuncture can do that

487
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:38,630
for a woman having major heart surgery

488
00:20:44,049 --> 00:20:41,600
what can I do for me so there's two late

489
00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:44,059
in a way but I think it made an impact

490
00:20:52,009 --> 00:20:47,700
because a lot of producers in the BBC

491
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:52,019
I have a lot of integrity and sometimes

492
00:20:57,019 --> 00:20:54,450
their push to kind of maybe go over over

493
00:20:59,419 --> 00:20:57,029
the limit or maybe sometimes exaggerate

494
00:21:02,120 --> 00:20:59,429
or sensationalize well someone just

495
00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:02,130
don't know yeah but the day clauses and

496
00:21:05,389 --> 00:21:03,720
I said look you know it's really

497
00:21:08,539 --> 00:21:05,399
important that we stick to the truth

498
00:21:09,919 --> 00:21:08,549
because if we don't yeah it's very

499
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:09,929
embarrassing to the BBC and everybody

500
00:21:14,509 --> 00:21:11,940
else and a second series was made of

501
00:21:16,430 --> 00:21:14,519
this program and of this series and

502
00:21:18,740 --> 00:21:16,440
alternative medicine and the second

503
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:18,750
series was actually much better it was

504
00:21:23,570 --> 00:21:21,450
much more honest much more scientific

505
00:21:26,629 --> 00:21:23,580
much more rigorous much more boring I

506
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:26,639
should try it but you know the truth

507
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:28,799
doesn't have to be boring but sometimes

508
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:30,090
the truth about alternative medicine can

509
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:33,120
be boring so so that back to me taught

510
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:35,970
me that if you you can use the system

511
00:21:40,580 --> 00:21:38,850
and if you keep on appealing eventually

512
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:40,590
you get the appeal at pal it was exactly

513
00:21:44,690 --> 00:21:41,850
what happened in the libel case as well

514
00:21:45,980 --> 00:21:44,700
so third time lucky guy very exposed I

515
00:21:47,090 --> 00:21:45,990
mean that some of the stuff that's

516
00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:47,100
happening in the UK right now

517
00:21:51,740 --> 00:21:49,529
particularly with homeopathy is is

518
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:51,750
amazing i mean the Science and

519
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:53,039
Technology Committee findings in

520
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:54,570
February this year where they

521
00:21:59,330 --> 00:21:57,330
recommended that there should be no more

522
00:22:00,740 --> 00:21:59,340
NHS funding for homeopathy there should

523
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:00,750
be no more research and to homeopathy

524
00:22:06,379 --> 00:22:02,490
there should be no more clinical trials

525
00:22:08,299 --> 00:22:06,389
and then the b.b.m a British Medical

526
00:22:11,060 --> 00:22:08,309
Association came out a couple of months

527
00:22:13,970 --> 00:22:11,070
ago and called it witchcraft yeah and

528
00:22:15,379 --> 00:22:13,980
then and then they had a meeting just

529
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:15,389
just just a couple of weeks ago

530
00:22:23,330 --> 00:22:17,730
literally and they voted overwhelmingly

531
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:23,340
to the d8 education fund homeopathy that

532
00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:24,809
they shouldn't have to necessarily train

533
00:22:31,610 --> 00:22:28,769
home en hospitals yeah that pharmacies I

534
00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:31,620
think shouldn't be selling homeopathic

535
00:22:36,620 --> 00:22:34,289
remedies or at least should label them

536
00:22:38,389 --> 00:22:36,630
as being pissy bones yeah so that Liz

537
00:22:42,590 --> 00:22:38,399
and then just at the start of the year

538
00:22:44,090 --> 00:22:42,600
there was the mass overdose yeah 1023 to

539
00:22:45,919 --> 00:22:44,100
Center your campaign which was great

540
00:22:49,269 --> 00:22:45,929
because I think what that showed was

541
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:49,279
that you know I expect the learning

542
00:22:55,370 --> 00:22:53,370
bodies the learning institutions and the

543
00:22:58,369 --> 00:22:55,380
societies of pharmacists the societies

544
00:23:00,440 --> 00:22:58,379
of biologists to be complaining to be

545
00:23:02,540 --> 00:23:00,450
outraged about home

546
00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:02,550
and some of them are but I don't think

547
00:23:07,310 --> 00:23:05,310
they speak loudly enough or tool it to

548
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:07,320
the right people and so here was a case

549
00:23:12,860 --> 00:23:10,410
of people the liverpool skeptics the

550
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:12,870
london skeptics the moses i accepted i

551
00:23:19,390 --> 00:23:14,970
said the most Sun skeptics all cool

552
00:23:21,860 --> 00:23:19,400
having a coordinated max overdose now

553
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:21,870
and it hit the headlines it got national

554
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:24,000
coverage and it makes it I think the

555
00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:25,530
biggest misunderstanding about

556
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:28,560
homeopathy is oh not these just a type

557
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:31,170
of herbal medicine yeah at purple

558
00:23:35,810 --> 00:23:33,210
there's nothing in it yes not even her

559
00:23:38,150 --> 00:23:35,820
believe if that campaign did nothing

560
00:23:40,750 --> 00:23:38,160
else but to say what you are buying is

561
00:23:43,790 --> 00:23:40,760
you're not a verbal yeah yeah and if you

562
00:23:46,220 --> 00:23:43,800
if you want to spend money on very

563
00:23:48,140 --> 00:23:46,230
expensive sugar that's your right to do

564
00:23:51,590 --> 00:23:48,150
but you should do it from an informed

565
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:51,600
position and now Britain and other

566
00:23:57,860 --> 00:23:53,850
groups around the world I think went

567
00:23:59,450 --> 00:23:57,870
ahead on the same day now people or at

568
00:24:01,370 --> 00:23:59,460
least a few more people know what

569
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:01,380
homeopathy is really about to make a bit

570
00:24:05,060 --> 00:24:03,600
more an informed choice yeah so one of

571
00:24:09,740 --> 00:24:05,070
the things that's happened very recently

572
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:09,750
was David Trudeau neck who put together

573
00:24:14,450 --> 00:24:12,330
for atms early day motions into the

574
00:24:16,850 --> 00:24:14,460
house of commons about two weeks ago so

575
00:24:20,540 --> 00:24:16,860
that's an early day motion is just where

576
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:20,550
an MP waves a flag for a particular

577
00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:23,850
issue and asks other MPs to rally behind

578
00:24:29,780 --> 00:24:25,950
that flag and if there's an overwhelming

579
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:29,790
number of MPs then it makes some impact

580
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:31,530
on government perhaps so we did exactly

581
00:24:35,330 --> 00:24:33,450
the same thing with libel reform yeah

582
00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:35,340
last year we got a media that was ever

583
00:24:39,890 --> 00:24:37,230
in harris ever damages was the prime

584
00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:39,900
mover behind that and thanks to his

585
00:24:45,230 --> 00:24:42,480
efforts it became a little biggest EDM

586
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:45,240
of the year with a majority of MPs who

587
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:48,690
do sign it EDM backing back so he said

588
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:50,730
he was medium you said about combing off

589
00:24:54,530 --> 00:24:53,010
with the advocating homeopathy yeah but

590
00:24:57,170 --> 00:24:54,540
he also I think he was involved in

591
00:24:58,670 --> 00:24:57,180
medium for Ben Goldacre wasn't he I'm

592
00:25:00,740 --> 00:24:58,680
not aware of that yeah i think it was

593
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:00,750
when the summer's do with matthias raft

594
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:03,210
anyway that's another door the year so

595
00:25:09,170 --> 00:25:05,910
he he put he put together for atms yeah

596
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:09,180
i had a very nice little chat given on

597
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:10,690
BTW radio program

598
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:13,600
yes after zdm came out because i just

599
00:25:21,860 --> 00:25:18,370
think they're up you know there are

600
00:25:24,750 --> 00:25:21,870
cases of people who suffer cancer and

601
00:25:26,820 --> 00:25:24,760
take alternative rooms and he sometimes

602
00:25:30,570 --> 00:25:26,830
rely wholly on something that homeopathy

603
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:30,580
and that that's it that inevitably ends

604
00:25:35,580 --> 00:25:32,890
in tragedy and one of the idioms that

605
00:25:38,730 --> 00:25:35,590
David rode in it wrote put down in

606
00:25:41,010 --> 00:25:38,740
Parliament related to a paper about the

607
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:41,020
homeopathic impact on breast cancer

608
00:25:44,850 --> 00:25:42,910
cells and I know this is the paper that

609
00:25:48,270 --> 00:25:44,860
you took apart along with other people

610
00:25:50,910 --> 00:25:48,280
have blogged about and the danger the

611
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:50,920
EDM is that people say is a

612
00:25:56,130 --> 00:25:53,400
parliamentarian somebody represents a

613
00:25:58,290 --> 00:25:56,140
figurehead of the nation saying that

614
00:26:04,290 --> 00:25:58,300
this research is really important and

615
00:26:06,690 --> 00:26:04,300
and then anybody else you suddenly it is

616
00:26:08,490 --> 00:26:06,700
confronted by cancer thinks well here's

617
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:08,500
me DM about homeopathic research for

618
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:10,650
cancer cells in Parliament empowerment

619
00:26:17,970 --> 00:26:14,410
boot cell homeopathy the NHS officer

620
00:26:19,710 --> 00:26:17,980
homeopathy there's a homeopath around

621
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:19,720
the corner who says well she can treat

622
00:26:26,610 --> 00:26:22,000
almost anything why don't I approach at

623
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:26,620
present it's really endorsing a very

624
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:29,890
very dangerous message but David to

625
00:26:34,770 --> 00:26:32,410
genic bullied similarly strange stuff so

626
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:34,780
that I mean I heard because this is

627
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:36,610
actually created quite a lot of press

628
00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:38,110
and Adam Rutherford who writes for

629
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:41,230
nature wrote an article about Trudy neck

630
00:26:45,780 --> 00:26:43,450
and was describing him as someone who

631
00:26:47,550 --> 00:26:45,790
believes that surgeons don't operate

632
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:47,560
under a full moon because blood doesn't

633
00:26:56,900 --> 00:26:54,130
clot that's right you did except to

634
00:26:59,820 --> 00:26:56,910
telex a crazy guy I wish I mean crazy

635
00:27:02,520 --> 00:26:59,830
means has some very very odd belief yeah

636
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:02,530
the run counter to I think what

637
00:27:06,150 --> 00:27:03,970
everybody here this conference believes

638
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:06,160
in terms of rationalism and skepticism

639
00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:08,050
what evidence would be nice as ever you

640
00:27:16,140 --> 00:27:10,990
know so we had a big MPs expenses

641
00:27:18,030 --> 00:27:16,150
scandal last year in Britain and I think

642
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:18,040
one of the expenses that the david reed

643
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:18,930
in it was was

644
00:27:24,140 --> 00:27:22,080
was brought to account on was the fact

645
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:24,150
that he'd spent several hundred pounds

646
00:27:29,090 --> 00:27:26,970
on astrology software yeah yeah it just

647
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:29,100
is very old police he really seems to

648
00:27:33,020 --> 00:27:30,450
believe there is something up there in

649
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:33,030
the stars that dictates our lives and

650
00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:36,330
dictates the rate of blood clotting or

651
00:27:39,950 --> 00:27:38,700
each that's what the moon does so

652
00:27:43,550 --> 00:27:39,960
obviously not the stars that would be

653
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:43,560
absurd and and and therefore the

654
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:45,600
operation should be timetabled according

655
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:47,730
to the phases of the Moon back so this

656
00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:50,370
is really i thought you know that the

657
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:52,230
most depressing thing I've just it's

658
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:53,760
kind of funny for a while but then I

659
00:27:58,790 --> 00:27:56,130
just realized I think he's just been

660
00:28:00,860 --> 00:27:58,800
elected to the House of Commons Health

661
00:28:03,740 --> 00:28:00,870
Select Committee yes he has he has isn't

662
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:03,750
it yeah I just think that this is a

663
00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:05,520
committee that will be informing

664
00:28:10,580 --> 00:28:07,860
Parliament yeah and one of the people on

665
00:28:12,620 --> 00:28:10,590
that committee is utterly clueless yeah

666
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:12,630
I've no qualms about saying this because

667
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:15,120
by clueless I mean somebody who doesn't

668
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:16,890
have a solid understanding of how

669
00:28:21,860 --> 00:28:19,890
science works yeah and and how medical

670
00:28:24,650 --> 00:28:21,870
research works and that's very clear

671
00:28:26,690 --> 00:28:24,660
from the EMTs put down and very clear

672
00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:26,700
from the way you've taken those bits of

673
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:28,470
research apart but it was also very

674
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:29,970
clear from what he said on your radio

675
00:28:35,060 --> 00:28:33,510
before interview where he he clearly

676
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:35,070
can't interpret scientific literature

677
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:37,440
even I'm in that paper there were lots

678
00:28:40,610 --> 00:28:39,360
of problems with it and many leases

679
00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:40,620
would know about that already we've

680
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:42,510
talked about on the show before but

681
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:44,730
there was not absolutely nothing in that

682
00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:47,370
paper anywhere that suggested that

683
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:50,310
homeopathy can cure breast cancer so not

684
00:28:54,020 --> 00:28:52,050
only did you misinterpret the paper he

685
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:54,030
went beyond that and extrapolated to

686
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:56,730
something completely Lenny yeah there's

687
00:29:02,960 --> 00:28:59,760
a lot it's a very irritating strand of

688
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:02,970
homeopathic research which looks at the

689
00:29:09,530 --> 00:29:05,970
fundamentals of homeopathy so you'll

690
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:09,540
look it is homeopathic Lee treated water

691
00:29:15,290 --> 00:29:12,720
different from normal water when you put

692
00:29:17,660 --> 00:29:15,300
it under nuclear magnetic resonance or

693
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:17,670
something when you fly x-rays through it

694
00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:21,330
has it react or we take homeopathic

695
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:23,070
solutions and apply them to single cells

696
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:26,130
what can we see and and the argument

697
00:29:29,130 --> 00:29:28,320
here is let's find out how homeopathy

698
00:29:31,710 --> 00:29:29,140
work

699
00:29:33,690 --> 00:29:31,720
and and mighty been to that website by

700
00:29:37,290 --> 00:29:33,700
the way wish Oh which one how homeopathy

701
00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:37,300
works oh come no no I didn't realize you

702
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:40,060
have to go there well it it's a suspect

703
00:29:45,060 --> 00:29:42,850
the word quantum appears no no no it's a

704
00:29:48,590 --> 00:29:45,070
skeptics website oh ok the URL is how

705
00:29:50,910 --> 00:29:48,600
does homeopathy white calm oh you know

706
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:50,920
boiling this what no not happy that now

707
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,690
I remember that happening that might be

708
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:57,760
what where to go how does homeopathy

709
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:00,640
work calm that's it exactly so my

710
00:30:05,310 --> 00:30:03,520
argument with these people is why you

711
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:05,320
wasting your time doing will this effort

712
00:30:09,210 --> 00:30:06,850
upon how home we coming up the works

713
00:30:11,490 --> 00:30:09,220
when the evidence so far says it doesn't

714
00:30:13,890 --> 00:30:11,500
work that's where you need to be putting

715
00:30:16,260 --> 00:30:13,900
your research if and when I say your

716
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:16,270
research I mean for god sake don't let

717
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:17,530
the British government pay for this

718
00:30:22,290 --> 00:30:20,410
research because they're even within

719
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:22,300
alternative medicine there are errors it

720
00:30:27,690 --> 00:30:26,530
is a more research and so there are some

721
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:27,700
herbal medicines which should we know

722
00:30:30,990 --> 00:30:29,890
may be effective if they are effective

723
00:30:33,210 --> 00:30:31,000
maybe we should put some more money into

724
00:30:38,430 --> 00:30:33,220
figure out how safe they are or how they

725
00:30:40,170 --> 00:30:38,440
can be safely used or so on so yeah how

726
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:40,180
homeopathy works is an ugly irrelevant

727
00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:42,310
question when it doesn't seem to work in

728
00:30:48,260 --> 00:30:43,870
the first place have you ought us in

729
00:30:51,030 --> 00:30:48,270
that wiki page it's a list of all the

730
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:51,040
randomized double-blind trials that have

731
00:30:56,340 --> 00:30:53,010
demonstrated the efficacy of homeopathy

732
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:56,350
no oh it's brilliant time with this to

733
00:31:02,910 --> 00:30:57,610
you open it up and there's just

734
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:02,920
tumbleweeds running a great but I mean

735
00:31:06,090 --> 00:31:04,570
we're talking a little bit before about

736
00:31:07,260 --> 00:31:06,100
the Streisand effect and that's the same

737
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:07,270
thing has kind of happened here with

738
00:31:12,540 --> 00:31:10,450
homeopathy to a sense you know since all

739
00:31:13,740 --> 00:31:12,550
the sites like Committee passed their

740
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:13,750
findings down and with all the recent

741
00:31:18,660 --> 00:31:16,240
stuff as you say lots of people now as a

742
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:18,670
result of 1023 and other things know

743
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:20,890
that homeopathy is not hopeful there is

744
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:22,570
nothing in it yeah and it you know I

745
00:31:27,620 --> 00:31:24,250
mean and I think just on the homeopathy

746
00:31:29,220 --> 00:31:27,630
thing I think that that's what thing

747
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:29,230
everything you've talked about has

748
00:31:34,770 --> 00:31:31,840
happened in the last six months and and

749
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:34,780
it looks that looks as though there's

750
00:31:41,230 --> 00:31:38,530
been a sudden blossoming of skepticism

751
00:31:43,660 --> 00:31:41,240
and investigation and reporting and doc

752
00:31:47,050 --> 00:31:43,670
speaking and so on but I think you can

753
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:47,060
trace all of that back and two things

754
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,050
have been going on for three or four

755
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:50,480
years so for example there was a letter

756
00:31:57,310 --> 00:31:53,090
sent out by a group of senior academics

757
00:32:00,550 --> 00:31:57,320
and doctors and so on to each Health

758
00:32:02,980 --> 00:32:00,560
Trust in Britain saying can you justify

759
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:02,990
your spending on homeopathy right and

760
00:32:08,770 --> 00:32:05,330
the direct result of that letter every

761
00:32:10,540 --> 00:32:08,780
Health Trust had to reevaluate or

762
00:32:12,610 --> 00:32:10,550
certainly considered reevaluating

763
00:32:14,980 --> 00:32:12,620
spending and I think there were quite

764
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:14,990
clear cuts in spending and in turn

765
00:32:18,970 --> 00:32:17,210
that's meant that homeopathic hospitals

766
00:32:21,550 --> 00:32:18,980
have had less resources because they've

767
00:32:23,260 --> 00:32:21,560
had less referrals 100 pathak hospitals

768
00:32:25,330 --> 00:32:23,270
close this down okay it was Eddie

769
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:25,340
exactly and that's started the ball

770
00:32:30,370 --> 00:32:28,490
rolling yeah and an in parallel David

771
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:30,380
colhoun professor David cohoon who runs

772
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:33,250
the improbable science website and blog

773
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:35,210
he got all that stuff from

774
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:36,890
Leicestershire yeah well he said I see

775
00:32:42,010 --> 00:32:39,730
any reason I'm not sure of it was Lester

776
00:32:44,740 --> 00:32:42,020
pretty sure it wasn't less of it but

777
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:44,750
there were various universities offering

778
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:46,640
homeopathic degrees yeah we did

779
00:32:52,990 --> 00:32:50,000
bachelors of science I know are so

780
00:32:56,460 --> 00:32:53,000
frustrating and but but David is one of

781
00:32:59,440 --> 00:32:56,470
most tenacious dogged and determined

782
00:33:02,650 --> 00:32:59,450
investigator I've ever met an incredibly

783
00:33:04,420 --> 00:33:02,660
decent man and he started submitting

784
00:33:05,950 --> 00:33:04,430
Friedman Rachel quizzes to these

785
00:33:09,460 --> 00:33:05,960
University singular I want to see your

786
00:33:11,140 --> 00:33:09,470
teaching material oh and bit by bit he

787
00:33:12,970 --> 00:33:11,150
managed to get old materials he managed

788
00:33:15,340 --> 00:33:12,980
to put them on his website he managed to

789
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:15,350
write to Vice Chancellors about what

790
00:33:20,620 --> 00:33:18,650
their lecturers were teaching and again

791
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:20,630
one by one those courses seemed to be

792
00:33:29,140 --> 00:33:24,770
closing there and and so these things

793
00:33:31,570 --> 00:33:29,150
often start off slowly but but and

794
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:31,580
sometimes they just fizzle out but

795
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:33,410
occasionally you build up such a head of

796
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:35,930
steam that you can actually get

797
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:38,960
somewhere yeah well thanks for talking

798
00:33:43,090 --> 00:33:41,810
to assignment I mean I know that what

799
00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:43,100
you went through with the whole b/ci

800
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:43,910
thing was

801
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:47,600
was awful and stressful and you had a

802
00:33:51,490 --> 00:33:49,760
happy ending yeah I've such a few people

803
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:51,500
here that sometimes these stories don't

804
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:53,750
have a happy and yeah and this one seems

805
00:33:58,810 --> 00:33:57,410
to have a happy ending so but that's a

806
00:34:02,550 --> 00:33:58,820
huge relief it's all have been

807
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:02,560
worthwhile and if it's a bit but okay if

808
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:05,810
if my case happens and and I

809
00:34:10,870 --> 00:34:08,210
successfully defend myself but that's

810
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:10,880
great but it still would have cost me a

811
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:12,530
lot of stress a lot of time and a lot of

812
00:34:17,950 --> 00:34:15,679
money but if the libel laws change which

813
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:17,960
is what's on the table now right then

814
00:34:22,630 --> 00:34:20,480
then and if my case has helped highlight

815
00:34:24,730 --> 00:34:22,640
that and they're gold acres case and

816
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:24,740
Peter wilmshurst case which is still

817
00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:28,490
ongoing and Henrik Thompson and

818
00:34:32,740 --> 00:34:30,470
professor Lacerta and so many other

819
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:32,750
people and if our cases can help change

820
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:36,530
the law then I feel that that will will

821
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:39,290
be be reassured that it was worth

822
00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:41,450
defending our writing and in particular

823
00:34:46,450 --> 00:34:43,730
as I say Peter wilmshurst case is still

824
00:34:48,970 --> 00:34:46,460
ongoing he's a cardiologist if he loses

825
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:48,980
his libel battle he will be destroyed

826
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:52,610
he'll be bankrupt it so while I'm sort

827
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:55,040
of relieved in my situation still a

828
00:34:59,350 --> 00:34:56,690
little bit early to celebrate because

829
00:35:01,120 --> 00:34:59,360
this beats are still being hauled

830
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:01,130
through the libel calls or what can our

831
00:35:05,830 --> 00:35:02,710
listings do to support the libel reform

832
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:05,840
well people can donate to library for

833
00:35:09,690 --> 00:35:08,210
that we're still trying to accumulate

834
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:09,700
money to keep continue the campaign

835
00:35:14,860 --> 00:35:12,170
people can sign up to the petition live

836
00:35:17,410 --> 00:35:14,870
reformed org people can donate to Peter

837
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:17,420
wilmshurst Defense Fund as well if they

838
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:20,720
feel so moved if their doctors insert or

839
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:22,400
interested in in cardiology in

840
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:24,110
particular here is a guy that's standing

841
00:35:29,890 --> 00:35:28,400
up for you and so you know there's a

842
00:35:31,570 --> 00:35:29,900
role that people can play just signing

843
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:31,580
the petition and if you've signed a

844
00:35:36,610 --> 00:35:33,410
petition get one or two more people to

845
00:35:38,650 --> 00:35:36,620
sign up we're well over 50,000 now if we

846
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:38,660
can hit a hundred thousand by the time

847
00:35:43,390 --> 00:35:40,210
there is a next parliamentary debate

848
00:35:45,790 --> 00:35:43,400
that will be even more powerful and I

849
00:35:47,350 --> 00:35:45,800
know obviously this program is going out

850
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:47,360
around the world this is a British

851
00:35:52,270 --> 00:35:49,850
problem but I'm sure listeners will be

852
00:35:53,980 --> 00:35:52,280
aware that because of the internet you

853
00:35:56,020 --> 00:35:53,990
can write an article in Australia and

854
00:35:56,690 --> 00:35:56,030
end up being sued in London's a very

855
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,700
embarrassing

856
00:36:00,770 --> 00:35:58,800
English libel laws have this global

857
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:00,780
effect on crush and free speech they

858
00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:02,970
call it libel tourism don't they that's

859
00:36:07,339 --> 00:36:04,950
right lung has become known as a libel

860
00:36:09,410 --> 00:36:07,349
capital of the world well which is just

861
00:36:11,839 --> 00:36:09,420
just not not what we want to be known

862
00:36:13,849 --> 00:36:11,849
for yeah well thanks for your time today

863
00:36:15,859 --> 00:36:13,859
Simon and I look forward to the rest of

864
00:36:18,650 --> 00:36:15,869
10 yeah and I'm really looking forward

865
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:18,660
to town Australia oh yes you must yeah

866
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:21,060
yeah I look forward to meeting some of

867
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:23,010
the listeners but excellent Thank You

868
00:36:37,849 --> 00:36:35,280
Simon my pleasure are you Canadian or

869
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:37,859
more particularly are you a vancouver

870
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:43,050
iranian and cooper and cooper hey if you

871
00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:45,650
li anywhere near Vancouver on Saturday

872
00:36:51,260 --> 00:36:49,320
November 20th then listen up cfi

873
00:36:54,050 --> 00:36:51,270
presents the skeptics guide to the

874
00:36:56,780 --> 00:36:54,060
universe and George Rob live in

875
00:36:58,849 --> 00:36:56,790
Vancouver dr. Stephen Amell Bob medula

876
00:37:00,920 --> 00:36:58,859
Evan Bernstein janab Allah and special

877
00:37:03,290 --> 00:37:00,930
guest George Rob will record a live

878
00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:03,300
taping of the skeptics guide universe on

879
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:06,569
Saturday November 20th 2010 at the

880
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:08,640
University of British Columbia's habit

881
00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:10,770
theater for information tickets and

882
00:37:18,740 --> 00:37:15,030
maybe more information go to ww cfi

883
00:37:36,590 --> 00:37:18,750
canada CA to our channel

884
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:36,600
but I do a sea ocean zuv gumbo it's the

885
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:38,880
new hub the new skeptics in the pub our

886
00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:40,320
sydney skeptics in the pub where at the

887
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:42,150
city hotel the corner of Quillan kent

888
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:44,370
streets and we've just had a fabulous

889
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:46,410
show by me night may not I thought it

890
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:48,210
went quite well look I thought it went

891
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:49,650
quite well the guy presenting it was a

892
00:37:53,210 --> 00:37:51,450
bit of a goose he made no sense of love

893
00:37:55,070 --> 00:37:53,220
logical fallacies there but we could

894
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:55,080
mention eyelashes and won the bar makes

895
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:56,250
look like a member of the human league

896
00:37:59,420 --> 00:37:58,320
and they saw that yeah and the bomb that

897
00:38:00,770 --> 00:37:59,430
they don't even know who the human

898
00:38:03,460 --> 00:38:00,780
league is which makes it even funnier

899
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:03,470
here they wouldn't would they know oh no

900
00:38:07,100 --> 00:38:05,610
that's okay in fact what is your

901
00:38:08,860 --> 00:38:07,110
favorite day human leaks on let's get a

902
00:38:11,540 --> 00:38:08,870
bit of pop culture into the show here ah

903
00:38:15,770 --> 00:38:11,550
you got me now my favorite Human League

904
00:38:16,970 --> 00:38:15,780
song remind me of one well look you know

905
00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:16,980
everyone just don't you want me baby

906
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:19,350
that's the wrong key but I'm a big fan

907
00:38:22,850 --> 00:38:20,850
of mirror man because it's like

908
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:22,860
harkening back to a sort of a 60s I love

909
00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:24,690
Motown sound so I'm a bit of a mirror

910
00:38:29,870 --> 00:38:26,820
man fan I'd have to I'd have to remind

911
00:38:32,110 --> 00:38:29,880
myself but look we've got still oh I

912
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:32,120
don't know maybe 50 people here still

913
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:34,650
hanging on having a drink and enjoying

914
00:38:38,690 --> 00:38:36,720
themselves and walking around yeah and

915
00:38:39,950 --> 00:38:38,700
looking at and people haven't stolen any

916
00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:39,960
my stuff that's on the table over there

917
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:41,700
which is very nice and we've been

918
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,810
playing to background music and it's

919
00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:44,880
really a very lovely venue it was a bit

920
00:38:48,260 --> 00:38:46,710
odd favor under see the screen but

921
00:38:50,690 --> 00:38:48,270
everyone stays quiet and we have a great

922
00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:50,700
time with it it was a great time there's

923
00:38:55,340 --> 00:38:52,710
huge leather couches here there are

924
00:38:57,470 --> 00:38:55,350
tables for everybody well I think this

925
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:57,480
place is a hit well and also you know

926
00:39:01,430 --> 00:39:00,000
I'm a big fan of the alternative theory

927
00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:01,440
of everything and I was out there

928
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:03,510
talking about World Trade Center 7 I was

929
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:05,040
out there talking about crop circles and

930
00:39:08,750 --> 00:39:06,810
no one is accosted me at the bar yet

931
00:39:10,820 --> 00:39:08,760
which no one mood you know one booed me

932
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:10,830
everyone was in fits of laughter that

933
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:12,330
well get well book you know but at least

934
00:39:15,740 --> 00:39:14,010
you know and I got the plugs on my

935
00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:15,750
favorite podcast there no one was your

936
00:39:18,299 --> 00:39:17,160
favorite moment of the presentation what

937
00:39:22,229 --> 00:39:18,309
was your favorite video I show

938
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:22,239
the euro club yes that's the the golf

939
00:39:26,099 --> 00:39:24,160
club that is hollowed out in plastic and

940
00:39:27,660 --> 00:39:26,109
you can pee in it yes and it has a

941
00:39:30,569 --> 00:39:27,670
little comes with a little modesty

942
00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:30,579
modesty curtain which you wear so you

943
00:39:33,959 --> 00:39:32,079
just look like you're checking out your

944
00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:33,969
club but in fact your wing inside your

945
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:37,359
pub which is pretty why yeah wow what a

946
00:39:41,309 --> 00:39:38,890
grip what a great evening it is and I'm

947
00:39:43,319 --> 00:39:41,319
this is the first of many at this new

948
00:39:44,910 --> 00:39:43,329
location oh look I think will be great

949
00:39:46,589 --> 00:39:44,920
I'm looking forward to more here and now

950
00:39:48,989 --> 00:39:46,599
you've had a really not so serious

951
00:39:50,489 --> 00:39:48,999
pissed taking one you can get Delhi ways

952
00:39:52,049 --> 00:39:50,499
up for this venue from here I think

953
00:39:54,179 --> 00:39:52,059
which it's a doctor Ricci running past

954
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:54,189
main hub oh and she's still running past

955
00:39:58,589 --> 00:39:56,650
and she's going away and I love to catch

956
00:40:01,410 --> 00:39:58,599
up with her though I'm going to the bar

957
00:40:03,959 --> 00:40:01,420
oh she's off to the bar all right and I

958
00:40:05,549 --> 00:40:03,969
look I saw in dr. rach's handbag there

959
00:40:09,929 --> 00:40:05,559
that she actually has a road bag with a

960
00:40:11,519 --> 00:40:09,939
a road road road bag in my bag that's

961
00:40:13,199 --> 00:40:11,529
the bag you Ian isn't it that's right

962
00:40:14,670 --> 00:40:13,209
and the wheat turns into gel so you can

963
00:40:16,829 --> 00:40:14,680
have to look PP in the car if you're

964
00:40:18,449 --> 00:40:16,839
caught in traffic I detected a theme in

965
00:40:35,590 --> 00:40:18,459
your talk tonight may not that's right i

966
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:40,520
so is anything in Canberra rational say

967
00:40:44,660 --> 00:40:42,930
it like you mean it click the button I'm

968
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:44,670
guessing brother Peter is brother

969
00:40:51,380 --> 00:40:48,090
Michael's brother there's nothing

970
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:51,390
magical miraculous about that we should

971
00:40:56,810 --> 00:40:55,110
totally contact me yeah cuz what I most

972
00:41:01,550 --> 00:40:56,820
want to have happen in my life is to be

973
00:41:04,250 --> 00:41:01,560
laughed at my house and I believe I'm

974
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:04,260
completely legally covered I totally

975
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:05,730
lost my train of thought isn't that

976
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:11,520
amazing rational capital the podcast for

977
00:41:15,950 --> 00:41:13,200
science and skepticism in and about

978
00:41:17,330 --> 00:41:15,960
Canberra whoa join us twice a month for

979
00:41:19,610 --> 00:41:17,340
either an in-depth look at issues

980
00:41:21,170 --> 00:41:19,620
affecting the national capital or for an

981
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:21,180
open panel discussion with our many

982
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:23,760
guests find out more at rational capital

983
00:41:43,649 --> 00:41:32,250
com au join us now for drinking

984
00:41:48,669 --> 00:41:46,209
there's a psychic fair coming here dr.

985
00:41:50,019 --> 00:41:48,679
AG I'm a worried now and welcome to the

986
00:41:53,319 --> 00:41:50,029
thing dang by the way thank you very

987
00:42:11,679 --> 00:41:53,329
much yes how did you know they're coming

988
00:42:14,409 --> 00:42:11,689
here we haven't had a bus announcement

989
00:42:16,419 --> 00:42:14,419
for hey we have an MP how about that and

990
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:16,429
as we know from the top of the show

991
00:42:20,109 --> 00:42:18,319
we're joined in the think tank today by

992
00:42:22,089 --> 00:42:20,119
not only dr. Rachel Wood our favorite

993
00:42:24,189 --> 00:42:22,099
bastard cheap hi she be good I everybody

994
00:42:26,309 --> 00:42:24,199
great to see you along here doe you're

995
00:42:30,009 --> 00:42:26,319
fiddling with your new iphone lucky you

996
00:42:33,099 --> 00:42:30,019
and I know this that you you were with

997
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:33,109
us at the first skeptics in the pub add

998
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:35,569
the first one for the new pub Yale's

999
00:42:38,289 --> 00:42:37,249
fantastic night it's amazing how much

1000
00:42:40,479 --> 00:42:38,299
room that was we had about the same

1001
00:42:42,099 --> 00:42:40,489
number of people and the place just felt

1002
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:42,109
well I actually felt kind of empty I was

1003
00:42:45,819 --> 00:42:43,729
worried that will down numbers but we

1004
00:42:48,279 --> 00:42:45,829
weren't at all we weren't and I'd say it

1005
00:42:50,469 --> 00:42:48,289
felt more comfortable a lot more clothes

1006
00:42:51,879 --> 00:42:50,479
on yeah comfortable compared to the old

1007
00:42:53,620 --> 00:42:51,889
plane now we had a great time in the old

1008
00:42:56,349 --> 00:42:53,630
place which was the crown hotel for many

1009
00:42:58,449 --> 00:42:56,359
years but the new place is fabulous it's

1010
00:43:01,029 --> 00:42:58,459
really it's really posh isn't it it is

1011
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:01,039
it's very Kailash leather couches

1012
00:43:07,449 --> 00:43:04,130
antique furniture and it's actually a

1013
00:43:09,819 --> 00:43:07,459
mismatch of or a mixed match of styles

1014
00:43:12,129 --> 00:43:09,829
it's kind of the 70s lights over the bar

1015
00:43:14,799 --> 00:43:12,139
but then there's antique tables and

1016
00:43:16,479 --> 00:43:14,809
sideboards and leather couches and sort

1017
00:43:18,909 --> 00:43:16,489
of rustic tables but it's really very

1018
00:43:21,429 --> 00:43:18,919
beautiful so I hope all the Sydney

1019
00:43:23,109 --> 00:43:21,439
listeners who haven't come along before

1020
00:43:24,579 --> 00:43:23,119
the skeptics in the pub and those who

1021
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:24,589
have of course come along to the next

1022
00:43:28,899 --> 00:43:27,169
one on the fourth of November if you

1023
00:43:31,569 --> 00:43:28,909
think we're a pack of lunatics you can

1024
00:43:33,339 --> 00:43:31,579
just leave I mean we're not going to

1025
00:43:36,669 --> 00:43:33,349
trap you in there and try to alter your

1026
00:43:37,779 --> 00:43:36,679
mind are we know but we will suggest

1027
00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:37,789
that you might want to have the

1028
00:43:41,450 --> 00:43:39,529
ten-dollar stake Richard where nine

1029
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:41,460
dollar nine dollars seven yeah

1030
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:43,290
yeah and actually drink prices are

1031
00:43:47,839 --> 00:43:46,050
pretty good too I noticed but don't

1032
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:47,849
forget there's a special skeptics in the

1033
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:49,920
pub on thursday the twenty fifth of

1034
00:43:55,940 --> 00:43:53,130
november which is the night before tam

1035
00:43:58,460 --> 00:43:55,950
oz officially kicks off and that's where

1036
00:44:00,770 --> 00:43:58,470
we're going to be squeezing in as many

1037
00:44:04,430 --> 00:44:00,780
tam guests and speakers as we possibly

1038
00:44:07,579 --> 00:44:04,440
can including SGU hopefully and brian

1039
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:07,589
dunning will be there to dance geo will

1040
00:44:12,770 --> 00:44:11,010
be there if if Eugenie Scott in town

1041
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:12,780
hopefully she'll be there many as we can

1042
00:44:18,410 --> 00:44:16,770
get yep so Simon Singh possibly yeah and

1043
00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:18,420
of course bastard sheep will be there

1044
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:21,089
well this well he might not be there now

1045
00:44:25,540 --> 00:44:23,490
you see listeners who were thinking now

1046
00:44:29,780 --> 00:44:25,550
that's a great thing to come along to

1047
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:29,790
might also do on the same night one of

1048
00:44:34,460 --> 00:44:32,640
the tam fringe events that's right on

1049
00:44:36,260 --> 00:44:34,470
the same knob there's an open mic night

1050
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:36,270
which is basically anybody can get up

1051
00:44:39,470 --> 00:44:37,770
and talk that's happening at a pub

1052
00:44:42,530 --> 00:44:39,480
that's probably about a kilometer away

1053
00:44:44,599 --> 00:44:42,540
so not very far no no and if you want to

1054
00:44:46,130 --> 00:44:44,609
find out the details for that there's

1055
00:44:47,630 --> 00:44:46,140
actually a meetup group being organised

1056
00:44:49,970 --> 00:44:47,640
for all these alternatives and side

1057
00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:49,980
events to town Australia you just go to

1058
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:53,310
meetup.com ford / town australia and you

1059
00:44:56,750 --> 00:44:54,930
can find out all the details about the

1060
00:44:58,700 --> 00:44:56,760
tam fringe events it's so if you're

1061
00:45:00,260 --> 00:44:58,710
thinking about organizing some side

1062
00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:00,270
events and you want some skeptics to

1063
00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:02,910
come along people to mix with just sign

1064
00:45:06,890 --> 00:45:04,710
up to the site send me message I'll set

1065
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:06,900
you up and we'll get the meeting

1066
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:11,760
organised meetup.com / tantrum australia

1067
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:14,310
now there i know there will be some

1068
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:15,810
people out there who were desperate to

1069
00:45:20,060 --> 00:45:18,480
get tickets and couldn't because they

1070
00:45:23,500 --> 00:45:20,070
were sold out or maybe weren't lucky

1071
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:23,510
enough to win one in the lottery but

1072
00:45:28,190 --> 00:45:26,490
hopefully you'll be able to meet all

1073
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:28,200
these wonderful people were having

1074
00:45:32,839 --> 00:45:30,330
coming along at one of these fringe

1075
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:32,849
events or skeptics in the pub so don't

1076
00:45:38,180 --> 00:45:35,520
feel too too sad if you've missed out I

1077
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:38,190
just want to say Richard about the time

1078
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:41,040
I'll skeptics in the pub i'm going to

1079
00:45:46,579 --> 00:45:42,930
set up a meetup page for that on meetup

1080
00:45:48,140 --> 00:45:46,589
com not the same one as bastard sheep I

1081
00:45:48,859 --> 00:45:48,150
have a different meet up so they'll be

1082
00:45:51,279 --> 00:45:48,869
confusing

1083
00:45:52,849 --> 00:45:51,289
for Sydney skeptics and you'll find it

1084
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:52,859
unfortunately we're going to have to

1085
00:45:56,660 --> 00:45:54,720
limit numbers for that skeptics in the

1086
00:45:59,720 --> 00:45:56,670
pub because the capacity of the room is

1087
00:46:01,460 --> 00:45:59,730
only about 150 people so what I'm going

1088
00:46:03,759 --> 00:46:01,470
to do is set up a meeting there and then

1089
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:03,769
people can RSVP and once you've rsvp'd

1090
00:46:08,539 --> 00:46:07,049
that will ensure that you get a place so

1091
00:46:10,460 --> 00:46:08,549
we don't want people to get disappointed

1092
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,470
we want to make sure everyone can come

1093
00:46:14,380 --> 00:46:12,079
but it's going to have to become

1094
00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:14,390
first-come first-served unfortunately

1095
00:46:19,370 --> 00:46:17,880
well again if they if they happen to

1096
00:46:21,529 --> 00:46:19,380
miss out on that there's always the open

1097
00:46:23,839 --> 00:46:21,539
mic and I sure there's going to be other

1098
00:46:25,339 --> 00:46:23,849
things as well so and I strongly suspect

1099
00:46:28,009 --> 00:46:25,349
that some of our guests might even

1100
00:46:29,630 --> 00:46:28,019
wander up some of our special guests

1101
00:46:32,029 --> 00:46:29,640
will wander up from the skeptics in the

1102
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:32,039
pub and join the open mic so I don't

1103
00:46:37,220 --> 00:46:35,130
think anyone's going to miss out at all

1104
00:46:39,950 --> 00:46:37,230
I don't think so well let's get on to

1105
00:46:42,140 --> 00:46:39,960
some quick announcements before we get

1106
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:42,150
on some interesting stories I just like

1107
00:46:45,380 --> 00:46:43,650
to remind everybody that our good

1108
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:45,390
friends in Victoria the Victorian

1109
00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:47,730
skeptics have been working very hard and

1110
00:46:55,309 --> 00:46:50,960
i have a wonderful website which is vic

1111
00:46:59,210 --> 00:46:55,319
skeptics dot wordpress com check it out

1112
00:47:01,870 --> 00:46:59,220
vick skeptics wordpress com and they

1113
00:47:04,729 --> 00:47:01,880
meet they have a regular monthly meeting

1114
00:47:08,329 --> 00:47:04,739
skeptics cafe third monday of each month

1115
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:08,339
at lanata restaurant which is 140 lygon

1116
00:47:15,229 --> 00:47:11,249
street Carlton so check out their

1117
00:47:16,729 --> 00:47:15,239
website anyway for more details I was

1118
00:47:18,499 --> 00:47:16,739
lucky enough to be a guest of the

1119
00:47:19,729 --> 00:47:18,509
Victorian skeptics a couple years back

1120
00:47:22,579 --> 00:47:19,739
where I gave a talk and it was a

1121
00:47:24,979 --> 00:47:22,589
fabulous night I should also mention

1122
00:47:27,289 --> 00:47:24,989
Richard that the big skeptics are

1123
00:47:29,150 --> 00:47:27,299
involved in organizing geo George her up

1124
00:47:31,220 --> 00:47:29,160
who's going to be doing a gig in

1125
00:47:33,650 --> 00:47:31,230
Melbourne after Tom Australia so if

1126
00:47:35,660 --> 00:47:33,660
anyone can't make it up to Sydney he'll

1127
00:47:39,799 --> 00:47:35,670
be playing on Tuesday the 30th of

1128
00:47:42,259 --> 00:47:39,809
November at the clyde hotel which is in

1129
00:47:44,089 --> 00:47:42,269
carlton in victoria i think i'm going to

1130
00:47:46,249 --> 00:47:44,099
go to that thai you are going to die

1131
00:47:47,569 --> 00:47:46,259
yeah I wouldn't miss that yeah well if

1132
00:47:49,789 --> 00:47:47,579
people want more information they should

1133
00:47:51,529 --> 00:47:49,799
go to the vig skeptics website and all

1134
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:51,539
the young Australian skeptics I noticed

1135
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:52,010
have

1136
00:47:56,860 --> 00:47:54,800
it too because I'm looking at it right

1137
00:47:59,730 --> 00:47:56,870
now so if you want information about

1138
00:48:02,080 --> 00:47:59,740
that that's a free event in Melbourne

1139
00:48:04,090 --> 00:48:02,090
after town Australia so if you've got

1140
00:48:06,460 --> 00:48:04,100
enough stamina like you seem to think

1141
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:06,470
you will have and you want to go to

1142
00:48:12,310 --> 00:48:09,170
Melbourne after that then you can also

1143
00:48:13,690 --> 00:48:12,320
go down and CTO in Melbourne osteo said

1144
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:13,700
in his blog he's also going to be

1145
00:48:17,020 --> 00:48:15,410
visiting other cities as well so it's

1146
00:48:20,260 --> 00:48:17,030
going to be in Christchurch Wellington

1147
00:48:22,330 --> 00:48:20,270
most likely there's possibly also few

1148
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:22,340
other states in Australia too so keep

1149
00:48:26,620 --> 00:48:24,170
your ears out the information is going

1150
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:26,630
to be coming soon on geologic and it's a

1151
00:48:33,820 --> 00:48:30,770
it's the styrofoam to arrive she's this

1152
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:33,830
diary fun now a couple of episodes ago

1153
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,770
we played a a promotion for Aaron's

1154
00:48:41,650 --> 00:48:38,960
world podcast the podcast done by a

1155
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:41,660
great little guy all about dinosaurs so

1156
00:48:51,090 --> 00:48:45,890
that's a a ro an apostrophe s world the

1157
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:51,100
podcast even has a fan page on Facebook

1158
00:48:58,510 --> 00:48:54,710
right there's a jr. jr. jr. podcaster

1159
00:49:01,920 --> 00:48:58,520
all about dinosaurs now also I'd like to

1160
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:01,930
announce that there's a new meetup for

1161
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:05,330
social skeptics in Canberra skeptics in

1162
00:49:11,020 --> 00:49:08,330
the pub in Canberra Sunday the October

1163
00:49:14,770 --> 00:49:11,030
the 17th the king o Malley's irish pub

1164
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:14,780
131 the city walk & the camera folks

1165
00:49:19,630 --> 00:49:18,110
meet on third sunday of the month now

1166
00:49:21,610 --> 00:49:19,640
you and I went down to Canberra a couple

1167
00:49:23,260 --> 00:49:21,620
of months ago rachy and we gave our

1168
00:49:27,190 --> 00:49:23,270
talks down there that was great yes we

1169
00:49:29,170 --> 00:49:27,200
did it was and last week or the week

1170
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:29,180
before we went to newcastle to give our

1171
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:33,410
talks yes we did and what I'm getting at

1172
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:34,850
Rachel you see you follow are you

1173
00:49:41,290 --> 00:49:38,090
getting at this is my reasoning that you

1174
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:41,300
and I love going out and doing our talks

1175
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:42,800
so we're sending out a big announcement

1176
00:49:48,460 --> 00:49:45,170
that if any group around Australia

1177
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:48,470
anywhere in australia one Reggie and I

1178
00:49:52,660 --> 00:49:50,450
to come and do our talks I give a talk

1179
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:52,670
on general skepticism dr. HC does a talk

1180
00:49:58,450 --> 00:49:55,250
called dr. heo reports the whole show

1181
00:50:00,640 --> 00:49:58,460
goes for about two hours we've had great

1182
00:50:02,770 --> 00:50:00,650
crowds turn up when we when we do this

1183
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:02,780
talk contact us we'd love to come and

1184
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:03,330
visit

1185
00:50:08,030 --> 00:50:05,130
organizers in your city your club

1186
00:50:10,190 --> 00:50:08,040
whatever it is all we ask is really that

1187
00:50:13,090 --> 00:50:10,200
you cover our costs which aren't that

1188
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:13,100
great it's really transportation and

1189
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:18,090
accommodation and numbing food you're

1190
00:50:21,740 --> 00:50:19,890
waiting for that weren't you yeah we

1191
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:21,750
also do mystery investigators if

1192
00:50:25,910 --> 00:50:23,490
anyone's interested yeah we do our mr.

1193
00:50:28,070 --> 00:50:25,920
investigators show for schools I fairly

1194
00:50:30,350 --> 00:50:28,080
deep to the kids big kids for anybody

1195
00:50:33,770 --> 00:50:30,360
really yeah so you can contact us by the

1196
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:33,780
contact link on the skeptics own website

1197
00:50:37,370 --> 00:50:35,850
skipper's own TV and find out more we'd

1198
00:50:39,470 --> 00:50:37,380
love to come and visit and give our

1199
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:39,480
talks they're great fun and I think

1200
00:50:44,780 --> 00:50:42,480
everyone learns a lot oh no I must make

1201
00:50:46,370 --> 00:50:44,790
an announcement here last week I gave

1202
00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:46,380
out this great telephone number for

1203
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:48,420
people in the u.s. to ring and leave us

1204
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:50,730
a voicemail and it was working fine then

1205
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:52,650
I got a message today or the other day

1206
00:50:58,310 --> 00:50:55,110
saying from drop do that they've

1207
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:58,320
discontinued the service sorry about

1208
00:51:02,450 --> 00:51:00,720
that fail so all those people i'm going

1209
00:51:04,460 --> 00:51:02,460
to try and get another one going so you

1210
00:51:07,490 --> 00:51:04,470
can ring up and leave us a message not

1211
00:51:09,590 --> 00:51:07,500
impressed not impressed at all where i

1212
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:09,600
am impressed about and i think dr. H is

1213
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:11,610
impressed about and this isn't an ad

1214
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:13,770
this is just the way we feel that when

1215
00:51:18,830 --> 00:51:15,570
we fly to the States we choose to fly

1216
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:18,840
with Delta Airlines tell other airlines

1217
00:51:24,260 --> 00:51:21,810
and they give us a great flight good

1218
00:51:26,030 --> 00:51:24,270
entertainment and we you and I both

1219
00:51:29,090 --> 00:51:26,040
belong to their air air Points program

1220
00:51:31,340 --> 00:51:29,100
look can I just say I want to be a delta

1221
00:51:33,290 --> 00:51:31,350
she'll Richard yeah me too yeah if they

1222
00:51:37,010 --> 00:51:33,300
if they pay for me to fly I will she'll

1223
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:37,020
never know I'm flying with them tomorrow

1224
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:39,900
morning and I'm very impressed with

1225
00:51:45,410 --> 00:51:41,610
Delta they even though we've only done

1226
00:51:47,350 --> 00:51:45,420
two trips on our miles delta miles we

1227
00:51:49,850 --> 00:51:47,360
have been upgraded to silver medallion

1228
00:51:53,210 --> 00:51:49,860
flyers and they've upgraded me to first

1229
00:51:55,490 --> 00:51:53,220
class and one of my legs internally when

1230
00:51:57,740 --> 00:51:55,500
I was in the States a few months ago I

1231
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:57,750
was in one of my legs I got upgraded to

1232
00:52:03,230 --> 00:51:59,520
and I thought this is pretty damn good

1233
00:52:05,330 --> 00:52:03,240
that sounds funny my leg was upgrade yes

1234
00:52:07,300 --> 00:52:05,340
my leg was upgraded the rest of me was

1235
00:52:09,580 --> 00:52:07,310
in economy

1236
00:52:12,340 --> 00:52:09,590
but my leg told me that it was quite

1237
00:52:16,690 --> 00:52:12,350
nice up there really delta i want to be

1238
00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:16,700
a she'll send me some chickens me too no

1239
00:52:21,070 --> 00:52:19,760
seriously um Thank You Delta we have a

1240
00:52:23,020 --> 00:52:21,080
good time with Delta otherwise we

1241
00:52:24,940 --> 00:52:23,030
wouldn't fly with them no I mean I've

1242
00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:24,950
been to the States well we'll have gone

1243
00:52:28,450 --> 00:52:26,720
three times this year and every time I

1244
00:52:30,700 --> 00:52:28,460
phone with Delta and only once did they

1245
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:30,710
lose my bag yeah that's pretty good idea

1246
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:34,250
is actually a bad so cheers to Delta and

1247
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:36,650
finally last announcement from me at the

1248
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:39,680
moment I can't wait to get these I

1249
00:52:45,820 --> 00:52:42,800
cannot wait I've ordered ten placebo

1250
00:52:47,770 --> 00:52:45,830
bands are these are these are very very

1251
00:52:49,930 --> 00:52:47,780
funny at me there well they're

1252
00:52:52,450 --> 00:52:49,940
surprisingly similar to power balance

1253
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:52,460
bracelets and you can order your placebo

1254
00:52:56,020 --> 00:52:53,930
bands which are made at the same place

1255
00:52:58,050 --> 00:52:56,030
as power balances as far as I know they

1256
00:53:00,820 --> 00:52:58,060
say placebo instead of power balance

1257
00:53:03,970 --> 00:53:00,830
listed by the power of Billy don't they

1258
00:53:07,930 --> 00:53:03,980
yeah there's five different colors you

1259
00:53:14,410 --> 00:53:07,940
can order those from ww skeptical Bros

1260
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:14,420
BR 0 s dot com / placebo hyphen bands

1261
00:53:18,190 --> 00:53:16,250
and there are only two dollars as

1262
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:18,200
opposed to what I saw the [\h__\h] in the

1263
00:53:22,900 --> 00:53:21,290
shop just yesterday sixty dollars but

1264
00:53:25,330 --> 00:53:22,910
Richard how can they sell them for only

1265
00:53:27,340 --> 00:53:25,340
two dollars because I hardly cost

1266
00:53:29,230 --> 00:53:27,350
anything to make rachey yeah cuz they

1267
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:29,240
cost something like fifty cents or

1268
00:53:34,060 --> 00:53:31,970
dollars seen to mate whatever yeah I

1269
00:53:35,890 --> 00:53:34,070
know the guys who run this blog and who

1270
00:53:37,390 --> 00:53:35,900
got the main and they're not making a

1271
00:53:40,780 --> 00:53:37,400
profit from this so they're selling them

1272
00:53:45,100 --> 00:53:40,790
at cost so I and they look fantastic

1273
00:53:48,550 --> 00:53:45,110
don't they really cheers tom um in wa I

1274
00:53:50,530 --> 00:53:48,560
can't wait to get mine now I is Brian

1275
00:53:52,660 --> 00:53:50,540
done in Dunning pointed out when you and

1276
00:53:55,060 --> 00:53:52,670
I were wearing our real power balance

1277
00:53:56,890 --> 00:53:55,070
around said it's much probably not such

1278
00:53:59,170 --> 00:53:56,900
a good idea because you know that you

1279
00:54:02,560 --> 00:53:59,180
looks like you're using them but I'd be

1280
00:54:04,060 --> 00:54:02,570
happy to wear my placebo band yeah I'm I

1281
00:54:05,620 --> 00:54:04,070
want to get some too and I'd be

1282
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:05,630
interested to see how long it takes

1283
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:07,970
before somebody asks me what they are

1284
00:54:13,330 --> 00:54:09,650
because if you have a look on the

1285
00:54:15,970 --> 00:54:13,340
website skeptic Bros dot org or com yeah

1286
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:15,980
you'll see that the placebo is quite

1287
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:17,170
there's written in why

1288
00:54:21,809 --> 00:54:19,599
quite big so to be quite easy to see it

1289
00:54:24,089 --> 00:54:21,819
I'm like this sort of small writing that

1290
00:54:26,940 --> 00:54:24,099
the power balance has so be interesting

1291
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:26,950
to see if anyone asks about it anyway

1292
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:29,200
yes I've ordered mine are voted ten in

1293
00:54:32,940 --> 00:54:30,910
fact so I can't wait to receive those

1294
00:54:34,260 --> 00:54:32,950
hell was that two dollars each we have

1295
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:34,270
ordered ten that's going to increase

1296
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:36,010
your strength by five thousand percent

1297
00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:38,559
is all it is I can't wait not just 500

1298
00:54:44,460 --> 00:54:39,849
I'll need it to get through tam

1299
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:44,470
australia i think i will she be what do

1300
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:47,290
you have for us ah we'll just been

1301
00:54:51,870 --> 00:54:48,910
announced that there's potential cuts

1302
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:51,880
coming to science and the UK a lot of

1303
00:54:55,319 --> 00:54:53,410
people have been very upset about this

1304
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:55,329
and there's actually some protests

1305
00:54:59,220 --> 00:54:57,040
happening this saturday for all the UK

1306
00:55:00,839 --> 00:54:59,230
listeners so if you want to find out

1307
00:55:04,220 --> 00:55:00,849
where they are what you can do to help

1308
00:55:06,569 --> 00:55:04,230
out simply go to Sciences vital org

1309
00:55:08,370 --> 00:55:06,579
we've got all the details there there's

1310
00:55:10,230 --> 00:55:08,380
a petitioner you can sign as well and

1311
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:10,240
this is very important for the country

1312
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:12,640
because you England's just had two Nobel

1313
00:55:18,180 --> 00:55:15,970
prizes awarded this year so if they cut

1314
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:18,190
science funding I'm not going to have

1315
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:19,359
things like that happen in the future

1316
00:55:24,750 --> 00:55:21,760
it's horrible what's happening yeah I

1317
00:55:27,630 --> 00:55:24,760
thought this was really excruciating but

1318
00:55:29,940 --> 00:55:27,640
but also quite hilarious that in the

1319
00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:29,950
same week that two Nobel Prizes were

1320
00:55:36,510 --> 00:55:34,089
awarded one in four carbon chemistry in

1321
00:55:39,170 --> 00:55:36,520
physics and one in IVF for medicine to

1322
00:55:41,370 --> 00:55:39,180
British researchers that there was

1323
00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:41,380
discussion about the potential to cut

1324
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:43,270
the science research budget in the UK

1325
00:55:49,849 --> 00:55:46,450
it's just preposterous and the timing

1326
00:55:51,780 --> 00:55:49,859
just seems so so out of whack but I'm

1327
00:55:54,930 --> 00:55:51,790
yeah there's going to be lots of very

1328
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:54,940
big protests coming up now I noticed

1329
00:56:00,480 --> 00:55:58,480
also that Lucis may remember when the

1330
00:56:03,299 --> 00:56:00,490
Science and Technology Committee did

1331
00:56:05,309 --> 00:56:03,309
their report into homeopathy that's

1332
00:56:07,470 --> 00:56:05,319
being funded by the NHS the National

1333
00:56:09,390 --> 00:56:07,480
Health Service and despite the fact that

1334
00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:09,400
the report came back as very damning and

1335
00:56:13,260 --> 00:56:11,200
that there was no not sufficient

1336
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:13,270
evidence to support and the efficacy of

1337
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:14,490
homeopathy

1338
00:56:20,359 --> 00:56:18,090
the inner the government neglected to

1339
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:20,369
cut funding they decided to keep funding

1340
00:56:24,290 --> 00:56:22,170
and part of the main reason for that was

1341
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:24,300
because the patients they said wanted it

1342
00:56:29,900 --> 00:56:26,880
and they should have a choice now the

1343
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:29,910
argument from many of us was well it's

1344
00:56:33,050 --> 00:56:31,440
not that they won't be able to get it

1345
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:33,060
they just won't have it paid for by the

1346
00:56:39,890 --> 00:56:36,090
public purse but in any case it's still

1347
00:56:42,140 --> 00:56:39,900
being funded to the tune of about four

1348
00:56:44,210 --> 00:56:42,150
million dollars a year now some people

1349
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:44,220
say well that's not very much of the NHS

1350
00:56:47,630 --> 00:56:45,450
budget it's only a small percentage

1351
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:47,640
which I'm sure it is but I'll tell you

1352
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:49,770
what that's a nice little amount of

1353
00:56:54,370 --> 00:56:51,690
money to run a really good research

1354
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:54,380
project in science you know that's what

1355
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,880
in Australia that would cover what's

1356
00:57:01,460 --> 00:56:59,040
called a program grant and that's

1357
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:01,470
usually consists of about four or five

1358
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:04,530
big institutions they all share between

1359
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:06,570
about five million dollars over about

1360
00:57:11,570 --> 00:57:09,210
five years and that runs five big

1361
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:11,580
research projects across five different

1362
00:57:16,250 --> 00:57:13,680
institutions for five years in Australia

1363
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:16,260
which will lead to real scientific

1364
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:19,410
events yeah so the fact that two Nobles

1365
00:57:23,060 --> 00:57:20,730
have just been awarded to british

1366
00:57:24,620 --> 00:57:23,070
scientists the fact that the NHS are

1367
00:57:27,620 --> 00:57:24,630
still spending four million bucks on

1368
00:57:30,109 --> 00:57:27,630
homeopathy and that if science gets cut

1369
00:57:32,540 --> 00:57:30,119
this four million bucks is going down

1370
00:57:35,060 --> 00:57:32,550
the drain you know which it is because

1371
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:35,070
you its water and sugar it's just

1372
00:57:40,910 --> 00:57:38,570
absolutely ridiculous you know I mean

1373
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:40,920
science grants in this country are very

1374
00:57:44,990 --> 00:57:42,930
small and very very difficult to get and

1375
00:57:47,570 --> 00:57:45,000
even if you do get one from the NHMRC

1376
00:57:49,730 --> 00:57:47,580
which is the big government funding body

1377
00:57:51,650 --> 00:57:49,740
you might be lucky to get three hundred

1378
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:51,660
thousand dollars for three years we're

1379
00:57:55,849 --> 00:57:53,609
talking peanuts you know it's not much

1380
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:55,859
money when you're trying to run research

1381
00:58:00,109 --> 00:57:57,570
and consumables are expensive and

1382
00:58:01,609 --> 00:58:00,119
equipment is expensive and so I just

1383
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:01,619
think it's preposterous that they're

1384
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:03,410
talking about cutting funding and then

1385
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:05,970
spending four million bucks on magic

1386
00:58:10,340 --> 00:58:07,760
sugar water well that's it i think that

1387
00:58:12,349 --> 00:58:10,350
people in the UK want to spend their

1388
00:58:15,470 --> 00:58:12,359
money on sugar and water than they

1389
00:58:17,450 --> 00:58:15,480
should buy it themselves John Wells with

1390
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:17,460
market yeah I don't object to them

1391
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:19,290
having it sure but the public purse

1392
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:20,650
shouldn't pay for it

1393
00:58:25,769 --> 00:58:23,170
sugar and water no wonder a lot of

1394
00:58:30,089 --> 00:58:25,779
people are now simply referring to it as

1395
00:58:31,980 --> 00:58:30,099
witchcraft it is when it's Medical

1396
00:58:33,359 --> 00:58:31,990
Association referred to us which cry I

1397
00:58:36,420 --> 00:58:33,369
think it's a great thing to do because

1398
00:58:38,069 --> 00:58:36,430
it it might as well be I mean they do

1399
00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:38,079
magic spells over and all sorts of

1400
00:58:41,819 --> 00:58:39,609
things except that it offends witches

1401
00:58:43,289 --> 00:58:41,829
because i think my actually use know

1402
00:58:46,460 --> 00:58:43,299
it's true because i think they actually

1403
00:58:49,710 --> 00:58:46,470
use stuff and i have Anita's real right

1404
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:49,720
and you know a hair of a wolf or

1405
00:58:54,510 --> 00:58:52,329
something harry potter fans be up in

1406
00:58:57,690 --> 00:58:54,520
arms about it as well yeah because harry

1407
00:59:01,319 --> 00:58:57,700
potter because witchcraft uses tangible

1408
00:59:03,630 --> 00:59:01,329
you know um ingredients doesn't it I

1409
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:03,640
don't know I'm not a witch but I believe

1410
00:59:09,210 --> 00:59:06,130
should be don't just make it up just

1411
00:59:11,490 --> 00:59:09,220
imagine angry emails now any witches

1412
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:11,500
listening if you could let us know the

1413
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:13,599
error of our ways would be most grateful

1414
00:59:20,910 --> 00:59:18,010
and send your reply via bat can I just

1415
00:59:22,620 --> 00:59:20,920
follow up on that story quick so yeah I

1416
00:59:24,779 --> 00:59:22,630
mentioned the Nobel Prizes were awarded

1417
00:59:28,380 --> 00:59:24,789
this week Richard and the Nobel for

1418
00:59:31,260 --> 00:59:28,390
medicine went to dr. Robert Edwards who

1419
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:31,270
was the pioneer of IVF or in vitro

1420
00:59:38,490 --> 00:59:35,770
fertilization and guess who's cranky

1421
00:59:40,230 --> 00:59:38,500
about that any ideas anyone like why

1422
00:59:43,049 --> 00:59:40,240
would anyone be cranky about that it's

1423
00:59:45,180 --> 00:59:43,059
given people life for example i think

1424
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:45,190
that's that's a wonderful thing and it's

1425
00:59:50,490 --> 00:59:48,010
given hundreds of well probably

1426
00:59:52,349 --> 00:59:50,500
thousands now of couples out there who

1427
00:59:54,029 --> 00:59:52,359
couldn't have a baby any other way the

1428
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:54,039
chance to have a family I mean what's

1429
00:59:58,829 --> 00:59:56,650
what's not to like about it well in fact

1430
01:00:02,910 --> 00:59:58,839
the world's first test-tube baby was

1431
01:00:05,010 --> 01:00:02,920
created in 1978 and since then IVF has

1432
01:00:07,859 --> 01:00:05,020
helped to create four million babies

1433
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:07,869
what that's what I've been reading in

1434
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:10,930
front of me and it's as you say I BF has

1435
01:00:13,799 --> 01:00:12,130
changed the lives of millions of

1436
01:00:17,220 --> 01:00:13,809
infertile couples who could not have

1437
01:00:18,990 --> 01:00:17,230
children and the committee said that our

1438
01:00:21,299 --> 01:00:19,000
professor Edwards work had brought joy

1439
01:00:23,370 --> 01:00:21,309
to infertile people infertile people all

1440
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:23,380
over the world and his achievements have

1441
01:00:27,870 --> 01:00:25,359
made it possible to treat infertility a

1442
01:00:29,849 --> 01:00:27,880
medical condition afflicting a large

1443
01:00:32,100 --> 01:00:29,859
proportion of humanity and that's more

1444
01:00:35,850 --> 01:00:32,110
than ten percent of couples worldwide

1445
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:35,860
so some people have been made very happy

1446
01:00:40,500 --> 01:00:37,690
by this technique and by this pioneering

1447
01:00:44,430 --> 01:00:40,510
method of medicine but the Vatican is a

1448
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:44,440
pretty annoyed the Vatican I thought

1449
01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:48,010
they always claim to be pro-life no well

1450
01:00:53,730 --> 01:00:51,280
I suppose so but they made a comment

1451
01:00:56,700 --> 01:00:53,740
about this award and said that giving it

1452
01:00:58,500 --> 01:00:56,710
to professor Edwards was completely out

1453
01:01:03,210 --> 01:00:58,510
of place because it went against all

1454
01:01:05,940 --> 01:01:03,220
Christian teaching on procreation now

1455
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:05,950
seriously the people still take the

1456
01:01:10,170 --> 01:01:08,250
Vatican seriously I suggest they do well

1457
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:10,180
according to the information I've got

1458
01:01:17,060 --> 01:01:12,850
here spokesman Monsignor Ignacio coaxial

1459
01:01:20,370 --> 01:01:17,070
de Paula try saying that the pictures

1460
01:01:22,860 --> 01:01:20,380
was said that ivf had led to

1461
01:01:24,510 --> 01:01:22,870
incomprehensible situations like

1462
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:24,520
children born from grandmothers and

1463
01:01:29,250 --> 01:01:27,040
mothers for hire yeah I kind of

1464
01:01:31,260 --> 01:01:29,260
comprehend that yeah he expressed his

1465
01:01:33,060 --> 01:01:31,270
horror at the great number of frozen

1466
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:33,070
embryos around the world which at best

1467
01:01:37,050 --> 01:01:35,200
are waiting to be transferred to wounds

1468
01:01:40,110 --> 01:01:37,060
but will most probably end up being

1469
01:01:42,210 --> 01:01:40,120
abandoned or dying and now the current

1470
01:01:44,340 --> 01:01:42,220
pope pope benedict he believes that ivf

1471
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:44,350
is morally wrong because it replaces the

1472
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:46,450
natural sexual union between husband and

1473
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:49,290
wife yeah he'd know a lot about that oh

1474
01:01:53,930 --> 01:01:52,000
well that's a good point but we're

1475
01:01:57,030 --> 01:01:53,940
talking about couples that can't

1476
01:01:58,380 --> 01:01:57,040
conceive naturally that's the people

1477
01:02:00,510 --> 01:01:58,390
that are using this is not people that

1478
01:02:03,870 --> 01:02:00,520
just can't be bothered shagging you know

1479
01:02:07,730 --> 01:02:03,880
I mean yeah so yeah the Vatican's

1480
01:02:10,770 --> 01:02:07,740
particularly pissed off about this Nobel

1481
01:02:13,050 --> 01:02:10,780
no surprises there really i'm slightly

1482
01:02:15,690 --> 01:02:13,060
no I must admit I'm surprised how are

1483
01:02:23,460 --> 01:02:15,700
you I am I am this is my surprise look

1484
01:02:25,290 --> 01:02:23,470
ah can you twit pic that look please now

1485
01:02:28,050 --> 01:02:25,300
don't tweak that James it's all right

1486
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:28,060
sir I know that wasn't my best work but

1487
01:02:32,970 --> 01:02:29,680
you have some more information for us I

1488
01:02:34,410 --> 01:02:32,980
see oh yes one more thing is some a lot

1489
01:02:36,060 --> 01:02:34,420
of people have been excited about bad

1490
01:02:38,700 --> 01:02:36,070
universe which is currently being

1491
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:38,710
produced by full play tips released two

1492
01:02:43,059 --> 01:02:41,290
episodes so far over losing argument I

1493
01:02:44,650 --> 01:02:43,069
have versa

1494
01:02:46,569 --> 01:02:44,660
yeah yeah hope you guys are actually on

1495
01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:46,579
a flood of time too weren't you yeah we

1496
01:02:52,660 --> 01:02:48,559
were trying out a Sydney just like a big

1497
01:02:54,279 --> 01:02:52,670
destroys this is peace anyway my contact

1498
01:02:55,959 --> 01:02:54,289
of discovery channel in Australia to

1499
01:02:58,509 --> 01:02:55,969
find out if they've got any plans to

1500
01:03:00,880 --> 01:02:58,519
wear it and they emailed me back saying

1501
01:03:03,819 --> 01:03:00,890
that this is set for an early 2011

1502
01:03:06,519 --> 01:03:03,829
premium that is quoted directly from

1503
01:03:08,439 --> 01:03:06,529
them so everybody's got Foxtel keep your

1504
01:03:10,359 --> 01:03:08,449
eyes open on the guides and I really

1505
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:10,369
know when it is where that's coming out

1506
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:13,130
here on pay-tv but i really hope it

1507
01:03:16,599 --> 01:03:14,690
makes one of the free-to-air channels ah

1508
01:03:18,699 --> 01:03:16,609
look I probably will because now that

1509
01:03:20,199 --> 01:03:18,709
we've got all those new free-to-air

1510
01:03:22,299 --> 01:03:20,209
channels is there's a new channel in

1511
01:03:23,709 --> 01:03:22,309
Australia now called 7mate and it's

1512
01:03:26,019 --> 01:03:23,719
supposed to be a bloquear channel and

1513
01:03:27,309 --> 01:03:26,029
they like blowing up stuff so surely it

1514
01:03:29,739 --> 01:03:27,319
would appear on one of those free-to-air

1515
01:03:31,539 --> 01:03:29,749
channels yeah hard to contact SBS in the

1516
01:03:33,969 --> 01:03:31,549
ABC but haven't heard back from any of

1517
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:33,979
the mess yet so I'll try again and put

1518
01:03:41,469 --> 01:03:36,170
the hard word on we'll put the hard word

1519
01:03:43,089 --> 01:03:41,479
on making a hard it's a pity I mean I

1520
01:03:45,999 --> 01:03:43,099
couldn't be with us tonight it's a pity

1521
01:03:47,589 --> 01:03:46,009
and we put also put the hard work on our

1522
01:03:49,930 --> 01:03:47,599
good friend from the catalyst show dr.

1523
01:03:51,670 --> 01:03:49,940
Paul Willis ah yeah yeah that was going

1524
01:03:55,180 --> 01:03:51,680
to be the emcee at 10 by the way that's

1525
01:03:56,469 --> 01:03:55,190
right he is Richard years yeah so many

1526
01:03:59,319 --> 01:03:56,479
of our Lister's would be aware that

1527
01:04:01,599 --> 01:03:59,329
there's almost really a well there's a

1528
01:04:02,890 --> 01:04:01,609
whooping cough epidemic in Australia at

1529
01:04:04,539 --> 01:04:02,900
the moment there has been for a while

1530
01:04:05,949 --> 01:04:04,549
and that of course there's one that's

1531
01:04:08,709 --> 01:04:05,959
been followed quite closely in

1532
01:04:10,689 --> 01:04:08,719
California well I think we're I'm sadly

1533
01:04:13,719 --> 01:04:10,699
up to about our eight death now oh

1534
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:13,729
really I think so yeah is it eight or

1535
01:04:20,289 --> 01:04:16,130
nine I think it's like yeah it's pretty

1536
01:04:22,449 --> 01:04:20,299
bad now of course recently in Adelaide a

1537
01:04:23,739 --> 01:04:22,459
five-week-old baby passed away from

1538
01:04:25,839 --> 01:04:23,749
whooping cough and I was actually on

1539
01:04:27,969 --> 01:04:25,849
radio talking about that we should play

1540
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:27,979
that segment one day on the zone we're

1541
01:04:33,050 --> 01:04:28,610
trying to

1542
01:04:36,260 --> 01:04:33,060
now this week a a doctor was diagnosed

1543
01:04:38,510 --> 01:04:36,270
with whooping cough who works at the

1544
01:04:42,620 --> 01:04:38,520
Women's and Children's Hospital in

1545
01:04:44,510 --> 01:04:42,630
Adelaide and this has meant that all the

1546
01:04:47,740 --> 01:04:44,520
patients that he or she had came in

1547
01:04:51,220 --> 01:04:47,750
contact while he was in Chino she was

1548
01:04:53,090 --> 01:04:51,230
infective have had to be contacted and

1549
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:53,100
some of them may have been given

1550
01:04:58,070 --> 01:04:55,410
antibiotics as a precaution but it's

1551
01:05:00,290 --> 01:04:58,080
thought that maybe up to 60 people may

1552
01:05:02,660 --> 01:05:00,300
have been come into contact with him and

1553
01:05:05,630 --> 01:05:02,670
may be at risk of contracting the

1554
01:05:07,250 --> 01:05:05,640
disease so this is this is pretty

1555
01:05:08,660 --> 01:05:07,260
serious because it is the Women's and

1556
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:08,670
Children's Hospital which means that

1557
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:11,370
there are you know young young children

1558
01:05:15,980 --> 01:05:13,920
from sick people they're vulnerable sick

1559
01:05:17,390 --> 01:05:15,990
people and children under the you know

1560
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:17,400
below the age where they've been

1561
01:05:23,540 --> 01:05:20,010
vaccinated so yeah potentially this

1562
01:05:25,310 --> 01:05:23,550
could be a bit of a worry of course you

1563
01:05:27,110 --> 01:05:25,320
know they're getting antibiotics but

1564
01:05:28,670 --> 01:05:27,120
that doesn't provide a cure whooping

1565
01:05:31,580 --> 01:05:28,680
cough that's simply to stop the spread

1566
01:05:33,380 --> 01:05:31,590
of the bacteria so once you've got it

1567
01:05:34,970 --> 01:05:33,390
you've got it there's not much that you

1568
01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:34,980
can do you just have to stick it out

1569
01:05:39,380 --> 01:05:36,960
stick out the symptoms which obviously

1570
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:39,390
can be pretty bad as you've described on

1571
01:05:43,210 --> 01:05:41,250
the show before the symptoms of whooping

1572
01:05:46,550 --> 01:05:43,220
cough are particularly unpleasant

1573
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:46,560
exactly yeah so there has been for a

1574
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:49,170
number almost over over 12 months now

1575
01:05:55,130 --> 01:05:51,810
call by people like us and also the

1576
01:05:57,020 --> 01:05:55,140
McCaffrey's for the government to offer

1577
01:05:58,850 --> 01:05:57,030
free booster shots and also more

1578
01:06:01,220 --> 01:05:58,860
importantly an education campaign for

1579
01:06:03,140 --> 01:06:01,230
parents because many people don't know

1580
01:06:05,900 --> 01:06:03,150
and in many of the stories that have

1581
01:06:08,500 --> 01:06:05,910
actually talked about this some exposure

1582
01:06:11,900 --> 01:06:08,510
in Adelaide they fail to mention that

1583
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:11,910
this vaccine has a lifespan of about

1584
01:06:16,130 --> 01:06:14,250
eight to ten years so many of these

1585
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:16,140
people and maybe this doctor him or

1586
01:06:21,770 --> 01:06:19,410
herself maybe hadn't had a booster so

1587
01:06:24,260 --> 01:06:21,780
well this is a very good point to remind

1588
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:24,270
everybody of course and we did oh you

1589
01:06:28,970 --> 01:06:26,250
did that fabulous interview a couple

1590
01:06:31,250 --> 01:06:28,980
weeks ago in Atlanta from dragoncon yeah

1591
01:06:33,890 --> 01:06:31,260
I can talk about she vaccine vaccine

1592
01:06:37,130 --> 01:06:33,900
booster which I put on the feed as a

1593
01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:37,140
video of course and also about to use

1594
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:37,920
back

1595
01:06:45,579 --> 01:06:41,609
show I went to a GP and I had my hoping

1596
01:06:49,730 --> 01:06:45,589
cough booster because I'm the uncle of

1597
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:49,740
quite young kids so yeah it's it it's

1598
01:06:53,510 --> 01:06:51,359
always a good time to remind people that

1599
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:53,520
you need to have a booster especially if

1600
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:54,930
you're going to be working with or

1601
01:06:58,430 --> 01:06:56,970
around young children things have

1602
01:07:01,490 --> 01:06:58,440
actually gotten so bad at the moment

1603
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:01,500
that I read on the ABC today itself that

1604
01:07:06,530 --> 01:07:04,170
are the Australia has actually released

1605
01:07:08,599 --> 01:07:06,540
some public health announcements for

1606
01:07:11,390 --> 01:07:08,609
people parents of young children not to

1607
01:07:13,430 --> 01:07:11,400
actually take their kids to unpopulated

1608
01:07:16,849 --> 01:07:13,440
places that have air conditioning so

1609
01:07:18,829 --> 01:07:16,859
molls libraries shopping centers etc

1610
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:18,839
they've been asked to keep your kids

1611
01:07:24,410 --> 01:07:21,690
away from places like that that just how

1612
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:24,420
bad things have gotten it's it's

1613
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:26,010
criminal it's funny though isn't it

1614
01:07:30,170 --> 01:07:28,530
Richard because I think we know somebody

1615
01:07:33,049 --> 01:07:30,180
who doesn't think that you died from

1616
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:33,059
whooping cough don't we we do yeah can

1617
01:07:37,430 --> 01:07:34,730
we just play that little excerpt from

1618
01:07:40,099 --> 01:07:37,440
from the program that she spoke about

1619
01:07:42,410 --> 01:07:40,109
whooping cough a number of years ago oh

1620
01:07:43,849 --> 01:07:42,420
yes I'll play that right now my mother

1621
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:43,859
used to put me with all the neighborhood

1622
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:45,450
kids when they got these diseases so I'd

1623
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:47,130
get them and get them over with and be

1624
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:49,530
immune and there was no fear there was

1625
01:07:53,450 --> 01:07:51,839
no worry about it we just got them we

1626
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:53,460
were supposed to get them and we did and

1627
01:07:58,970 --> 01:07:57,210
we were healthier for them now we have a

1628
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:58,980
medical community that's saying if you

1629
01:08:01,670 --> 01:08:00,480
get measles if you get whooping cough

1630
01:08:03,710 --> 01:08:01,680
you're going to die from it well where

1631
01:08:05,450 --> 01:08:03,720
is the information from that you didn't

1632
01:08:08,359 --> 01:08:05,460
die from it 30 years ago and you're not

1633
01:08:10,789 --> 01:08:08,369
gonna die from it today yeah so I mean

1634
01:08:12,859 --> 01:08:10,799
in that in that little sound bite and I

1635
01:08:14,870 --> 01:08:12,869
I played that quite a few times and i

1636
01:08:16,970 --> 01:08:14,880
put it up on a Facebook page a couple of

1637
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:16,980
weeks ago it just makes me look more and

1638
01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:19,170
more like I don't know would you say a

1639
01:08:23,510 --> 01:08:22,319
numpty you make you goose you didn't die

1640
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:23,520
from it 30 years ago and you're not

1641
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:24,960
going to die for where's the information

1642
01:08:31,450 --> 01:08:27,130
for that

1643
01:08:33,100 --> 01:08:31,460
did I say that I don't believe I did ya

1644
01:08:34,990 --> 01:08:33,110
say on the radio now if they want to

1645
01:08:38,860 --> 01:08:35,000
insult someone they say what a pelican

1646
01:08:42,130 --> 01:08:38,870
what yeah what did you want they say you

1647
01:08:44,050 --> 01:08:42,140
helican they do what are you talking

1648
01:08:46,780 --> 01:08:44,060
about that they say they don't talk back

1649
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:46,790
radio it's instead of insulting someone

1650
01:08:52,990 --> 01:08:48,650
calling them something very rude you

1651
01:09:00,010 --> 01:08:53,000
just say you pelican okay then merrell

1652
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:00,020
dari is a pelican there you go yeah

1653
01:09:06,730 --> 01:09:02,810
anyway oh and just quickly I'm before we

1654
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:06,740
finish up this is sort of connected Paul

1655
01:09:11,050 --> 01:09:08,210
off its new book is coming out very soon

1656
01:09:13,090 --> 01:09:11,060
ah dr. Paul often oh sorry dr. profit

1657
01:09:15,340 --> 01:09:13,100
profit as the antidotes is like to call

1658
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:15,350
him his book is called deadly choices

1659
01:09:21,610 --> 01:09:17,210
how the anti-vaccine movement threatens

1660
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:21,620
us all it's you can pre-order it now on

1661
01:09:29,170 --> 01:09:24,410
amazon but I'm not [\h__\h] snot coming out

1662
01:09:32,230 --> 01:09:29,180
for a few months Meryl posted it on her

1663
01:09:37,030 --> 01:09:32,240
Facebook page last week and asked all of

1664
01:09:38,980 --> 01:09:37,040
her readers to go and place comments on

1665
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:38,990
the discussion on amazon which of course

1666
01:09:42,490 --> 01:09:40,850
they all did so its all full of

1667
01:09:44,650 --> 01:09:42,500
anti-vaxxers saying that he's a criminal

1668
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:44,660
because he made 25 million dollars from

1669
01:09:50,860 --> 01:09:49,130
developing the rotavirus vaccine blahdy

1670
01:09:52,150 --> 01:09:50,870
blahdy a rich is shaking his head and

1671
01:09:54,580 --> 01:09:52,160
rolling his eyes you know how to spell

1672
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:54,590
all of the screen so if anyone wants to

1673
01:09:58,660 --> 01:09:55,760
have a look at that and maybe add some

1674
01:10:03,970 --> 01:09:58,670
comments go to Amazon look for his book

1675
01:10:06,700 --> 01:10:03,980
and you can pre-order it now that's what

1676
01:10:09,850 --> 01:10:06,710
you should do before we leave the think

1677
01:10:11,380 --> 01:10:09,860
tank big shout out to a guy who made it

1678
01:10:13,660 --> 01:10:11,390
along to skeptics in the pub when it was

1679
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:13,670
really great that he did Steve and his

1680
01:10:19,570 --> 01:10:16,850
wonderful dog Casey Casey so I know

1681
01:10:21,370 --> 01:10:19,580
Steve's a fan of the show and it was

1682
01:10:23,260 --> 01:10:21,380
such a nice bloke and we gave him a lift

1683
01:10:25,030 --> 01:10:23,270
home afterwards so thanks Steve for

1684
01:10:26,830 --> 01:10:25,040
making the effort and I know it's not a

1685
01:10:28,810 --> 01:10:26,840
particularly easier for you to come

1686
01:10:30,070 --> 01:10:28,820
along but that was fabulous and we

1687
01:10:32,860 --> 01:10:30,080
certainly hope that you can join us

1688
01:10:34,750 --> 01:10:32,870
again yeah well I heard lots of people

1689
01:10:36,130 --> 01:10:34,760
come to the new pub it's a really

1690
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:36,140
beautiful venue

1691
01:10:43,780 --> 01:10:38,930
it's much prettier than the last one so

1692
01:10:46,630 --> 01:10:43,790
let's go noms up or so so Sydney people

1693
01:10:48,940 --> 01:10:46,640
seriously go to meetup com and do a

1694
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:48,950
search for Sydney skeptics join up and

1695
01:10:53,500 --> 01:10:51,770
you won't be sorry you did and I'm not

1696
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:53,510
sorry I came along here tonight I had a

1697
01:10:58,450 --> 01:10:56,000
wonderful dinner thank you very much for

1698
01:11:00,460 --> 01:10:58,460
coming along dr. oh gee thanks very much

1699
01:11:04,380 --> 01:11:00,470
Richard and i'll be on a plane tomorrow

1700
01:11:06,700 --> 01:11:04,390
morning so I'll see you I don't know

1701
01:11:09,850 --> 01:11:06,710
well I hope you send us a report from

1702
01:11:11,350 --> 01:11:09,860
America um yeah I'll try to do that I'll

1703
01:11:14,230 --> 01:11:11,360
try to do that well I'm going to be

1704
01:11:16,420 --> 01:11:14,240
doing some the talks I'm going to be

1705
01:11:19,420 --> 01:11:16,430
listening to her about mnd as I

1706
01:11:20,530 --> 01:11:19,430
mentioned in the intro and also some

1707
01:11:23,350 --> 01:11:20,540
people have heard me talk about the

1708
01:11:26,140 --> 01:11:23,360
connection between the Guam bats and ALS

1709
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:26,150
so you've got a way of getting to these

1710
01:11:30,580 --> 01:11:28,850
conventions and still doing skeptical

1711
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:30,590
engineers well that's true because last

1712
01:11:35,260 --> 01:11:32,090
year I when I went to the same

1713
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:35,270
conference in miami i ended up at carl

1714
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:37,610
sagan day at Broward College in Fort

1715
01:11:43,150 --> 01:11:40,850
Lauderdale interviewing DJ Grothe Randy

1716
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:43,160
and Phil Plait and Phil plates mum you

1717
01:11:48,190 --> 01:11:46,370
did sucking up on the boat thank you

1718
01:11:49,540 --> 01:11:48,200
James are coming on once again thanks

1719
01:11:51,340 --> 01:11:49,550
very much happiness but you must bring

1720
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:51,350
you a little bastard cheap next time ok

1721
01:12:09,030 --> 01:11:56,210
fine and well until our next think tank

1722
01:12:13,270 --> 01:12:11,410
yeah aight guys i was talking to Richard

1723
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:13,280
Saunders isn't it all right he said if

1724
01:12:17,500 --> 01:12:15,410
we record a trailer for our podcast

1725
01:12:19,180 --> 01:12:17,510
skeptics with a que he'd play it on

1726
01:12:20,500 --> 01:12:19,190
their on their show nice nice even

1727
01:12:21,729 --> 01:12:20,510
that's very generous it's pretty good

1728
01:12:23,860 --> 01:12:21,739
i'm not sure what we could do though I

1729
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:23,870
mean well suppose you tell people shows

1730
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:26,210
about but it's basically this yeah like

1731
01:12:30,130 --> 01:12:28,489
yeah but you know we talk about science

1732
01:12:31,690 --> 01:12:30,140
and skepticism and things that's that's

1733
01:12:33,430 --> 01:12:31,700
true as fuzzier you mention the website

1734
01:12:34,959 --> 01:12:33,440
address what merseyside skeptics talk

1735
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:34,969
don't you care yeah yeah just like

1736
01:12:38,290 --> 01:12:36,650
searches night UN's oh and then we could

1737
01:12:42,100 --> 01:12:38,300
end with like a big song like the

1738
01:12:54,350 --> 01:12:42,110
skeptics with okay god no no no no don't

1739
01:12:59,400 --> 01:12:56,790
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1740
01:13:01,500 --> 01:12:59,410
zone now i'm not sure what we have next

1741
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:01,510
week but I know one thing dr. HC won't

1742
01:13:08,100 --> 01:13:04,810
be here oh no oh no dr. HC where will

1743
01:13:12,510 --> 01:13:08,110
you be I'll be in Jackson Hole next week

1744
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:12,520
in Wyoming at a work conference Richard

1745
01:13:17,150 --> 01:13:14,410
not a not a skeptical conference this

1746
01:13:20,070 --> 01:13:17,160
time oh it's good no no it's google

1747
01:13:22,380 --> 01:13:20,080
conferences actually exists yes they do

1748
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:22,390
so this will be my third trip to the

1749
01:13:29,850 --> 01:13:25,210
states this year and my last I think for

1750
01:13:32,730 --> 01:13:29,860
2010 yeah i'm going to to Wyoming to do

1751
01:13:34,470 --> 01:13:32,740
a week's worth of conference which is

1752
01:13:37,470 --> 01:13:34,480
going to be on motor neuron disease

1753
01:13:40,830 --> 01:13:37,480
which is what my work is focusing on at

1754
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:40,840
the moment it's a it's a little sort of

1755
01:13:45,060 --> 01:13:43,330
collection of a small number of

1756
01:13:46,410 --> 01:13:45,070
researchers who come together from all

1757
01:13:49,290 --> 01:13:46,420
over the world and all have different

1758
01:13:51,510 --> 01:13:49,300
specialties and applying all different

1759
01:13:53,630 --> 01:13:51,520
arms of their skills to try and solve

1760
01:13:56,460 --> 01:13:53,640
the problem of motor neuron disease or

1761
01:13:59,250 --> 01:13:56,470
ALS as it's no one in the States or Lou

1762
01:14:01,560 --> 01:13:59,260
Gehrig's amyotrophic lateral sclerosis

1763
01:14:05,850 --> 01:14:01,570
try saying that after a few drinks in

1764
01:14:08,670 --> 01:14:05,860
the think tank and then I'm staying on

1765
01:14:11,130 --> 01:14:08,680
for a week to do some work in the lab of

1766
01:14:14,220 --> 01:14:11,140
dr. Paul Cox but you will be doing a

1767
01:14:17,610 --> 01:14:14,230
little bit of skeptical activities oh

1768
01:14:20,070 --> 01:14:17,620
well I actually going to be doing a talk

1769
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:20,080
in Salt Lake City on the twenty-third of

1770
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:22,690
October that's saturday night if you're

1771
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:25,210
listening Salt Lake City skeptics get in

1772
01:14:29,490 --> 01:14:26,650
touch because I haven't heard from you

1773
01:14:31,230 --> 01:14:29,500
guys I've got to my flight so I've

1774
01:14:33,150 --> 01:14:31,240
actually had a few people email and ask

1775
01:14:35,550 --> 01:14:33,160
me look for more details I don't have

1776
01:14:37,770 --> 01:14:35,560
any more details yet so I'm hoping that

1777
01:14:39,540 --> 01:14:37,780
I'm the salt lake city scape this get

1778
01:14:41,430 --> 01:14:39,550
back to me and we can i can let

1779
01:14:44,580 --> 01:14:41,440
everybody know where i'm going to be but

1780
01:14:47,190 --> 01:14:44,590
i will be at this time twenty-third of

1781
01:14:49,710 --> 01:14:47,200
october in Salt Lake City how exciting

1782
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:49,720
well thank you dr. HD thank you for

1783
01:14:56,190 --> 01:14:52,050
Buster cheap for being involved with the

1784
01:14:58,260 --> 01:14:56,200
skeptic zone today and until next week

1785
01:15:03,000 --> 01:14:58,270
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1786
01:15:09,430 --> 01:15:05,410
you've been listening to the skeptic

1787
01:15:13,209 --> 01:15:09,440
zone visit our website at www skeptics

1788
01:15:15,870 --> 01:15:13,219
on TV for comments contacts and extra

1789
01:15:20,830 --> 01:15:15,880
video reports